GaF Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I've been giving some thought to the format of the existing Team Challenge and trying to think how it could be improved for future Team Challenges. The format I've come up with is as below. Any feedback on this (or the existing team challenge) would be welcome :ok - individual or teams are ok - though I'd expect more individuals and smaller teams with this format (depending on time span) - Will be a nominated SnG MTT challenge (or maybe a regular Scheduled MTT event). At a speicifed site (Probably a site PL is currently working with to bring us value added promos), the second SnG MTT to start after a specific time will be the "focus" (sounds complicated but honestly it's not - For example it it were Pokerstars SNG180s after 6pm BST, then at 6pm, the tourney currently registering is let go and the next one to start registering will be the selected event - this is to ensure the maximum time is available for people to register) -There will be no declarations or nominated players - everyones alias on this site will be known and we will look to see who is playing - the team member for each team with the fewest games played for the team is the person whose score will count - where more than one person falls into that category, it will be the team member that comes first alphabetically. - This will run over a fixed period - say 14 consecutive evenings - Opening team bankrolls will start at 14xBuyIns plus minimum player to player transfer value on pokerstars - so if a team play and lose all their games, they still have enough that they need to make the minimum transfer (transfers within a team will be up to the teams to sort out themselves). Team to Team transfers will be through Pokerstars - with any accompanying play through requirments this throws up. Players enter in the knowledge that any winnings received may need to be played through before being withdrawn. - We are still playing for everyone elses bankroll Just to be clear - I will NOT be changing the existing challenge in any wholesale way along these lines - this suggestion is solely for any future challenges I think the main weaknesses of the existing challenge I've tried to deal with: - The biggest nightmare, both as an organiser and as a player seems to be the whole nominations and declarations process, and the rules surrounding eligible games. This new format does away with that totally :) :) This should massively reduce the rules and the bureaucracy. No need for screenshots of lobbies or results. - This will run for a fixed time period, rather than a completely unknown period of time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGremlin Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Re: New Team Challenge proposal "- This will run for a fixed time period, rather than a completely unknown period of time" How about a set amount of bankroll OR a certain date determined beforehand? In fact, I wouldn't mind setting an end date on our current challenge (like till the end of the summer) if we take much longer about hitting $500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staffy Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Re: New Team Challenge proposal I like the idea Gaf and could be interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppie Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Re: New Team Challenge proposal Would suggest 3 days on 1 site and 3 days on another with a day off or 4 dayss one and 3 on another,also would go for a scheduled MTT. Just my thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staffy Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Re: New Team Challenge proposal How much would you look at the buy in being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 Re: New Team Challenge proposal How much would you look at the buy in being. I think that's open for discussion/debate. I'd want it to be as inclusive as possible (remembering that too low will discourage some as well as being too high). Though there's extra prize money for winning others bankrolls. Totally hypothetical suggestion would be something like: All games are Pokerstars SnG 180's - every night for two weeks (it's a team event - so that means one team member per night - not that team members have to play every night). Buy in is the $2+20c games. This means that the teams starting bankroll/stake would be 14x$2.20 + Pokerstars minimum player to player transfer amount ($10?) = $30.20 + $10 = $40.20. 4 team members would mean each player risks a maximum of $10 and has to play about 4 evenings over the 2 weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 Re: New Team Challenge proposal "- This will run for a fixed time period, rather than a completely unknown period of time" How about a set amount of bankroll OR a certain date determined beforehand? In fact, I wouldn't mind setting an end date on our current challenge (like till the end of the summer) if we take much longer about hitting $500 I dont feel it would be fair to make such a drastic change to the existing challenge at this stage - however I reckon it will be over within the next month ;) Someone will hit a big win at some stage..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 Re: New Team Challenge proposal Would suggest 3 days on 1 site and 3 days on another with a day off or 4 dayss one and 3 on another,also would go for a scheduled MTT. Just my thoughts. If it's just one site, then we're only asking players to have funds on one site, rather than move around. I think that multiple sites, when a specific game is "dictated" proves a disincentive to many :unsure I also think that by having it on just one site, and support a site that's supporting PLrs, it's a good chance to give something extra back to a site (having players playing on there every night, even if it isnt for large stakes) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppie Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Re: New Team Challenge proposal The 2 sites i was thinking of were Virgin and Will Hill-would assume most have funds in those as they are regulars for a lot of players(pl games-super series-vroll):ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Re: New Team Challenge proposal This means that the teams starting bankroll/stake would be 14x$2.20 + Pokerstars minimum player to player transfer amount ($10?) = $30.20 + $10 = $40.20. I've transferred as little as $1 to people in the past (dont ask :lol) Only thought about this for about 1 hour but it seems ok in principle. Deadline :ok Regular game format :ok No declarations :ok:ok:ok 1 thought I have is about timing of games ..... I like the flexibility of being able to play anytime during 24 hours if this is my only time available ..... but you cant please everyone I guess ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted June 21, 2009 Author Share Posted June 21, 2009 Re: New Team Challenge proposal 1 thought I have is about timing of games ..... I like the flexibility of being able to play anytime during 24 hours if this is my only time available ..... but you cant please everyone I guess ;) You're not alone in that (I've had a similar comment by PM). Bottom line - it's a trade off - if flexibility is retained, then there must be safeguards, which means declarations. I think my counter would be that that's where the team game element can help - if you're not available at 6pm BST (or whenever) x nights a week, then you need to make sure you have team mates who are.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: New Team Challenge proposal I'd have thought 6pm BST would be inconvenient any night of the week for those who have kids - I know it would be for me. I like the scheduled MTT each night over the scheduled SnG. Not bothered about buy-in. Will you be setting a max number of players per team - the 4 you suggested? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sugleh Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: New Team Challenge proposal The one fixed time slot per day would probably rule this out for me. Could there perhaps be 3 slots per day? I very much understand the reason for this and can see that things are a bit too complicated in the current Challenge, with too much time spent by one "mod" to keep this up and running. Nice to keep the chat going on how we can keep this running but still suiting most players' preferences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staffy Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: New Team Challenge proposal I think a few people are missing the point here. If you cant play every game then you join a team and you split the games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sugleh Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: New Team Challenge proposal Umm, I wasn't missing the point. 6 pm UK time is always too early for me and I would never be able to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staffy Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: New Team Challenge proposal 6pm i am sure is an idea. the time could be up for debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooloovoo Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: New Team Challenge proposal I have kids and would prefer 8pm or later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: New Team Challenge proposal I dont feel it would be fair to make such a drastic change to the existing challenge at this stage - however I reckon it will be over within the next month ;) Someone will hit a big win at some stage..... I'll give you evens it's not over by the end of July. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted June 22, 2009 Author Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: New Team Challenge proposal 6pm was just a nominal time I plucked out of the air - I've put no thought into timings at all. Maybe the answer is to rotate times ... something like - Mondays 6pm, tuesdays 7pm, wednesdays 8pm ... etc ... 3 slots per day would mean 3x the work to manage it - so I'd rather steer clear of that..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted June 22, 2009 Author Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: New Team Challenge proposal I'll give you evens it's not over by the end of July. ;) Tempting ..... I believe you're wrong ..... however I believe you're right too often for me to back that up with money ;tongue2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted June 22, 2009 Author Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: New Team Challenge proposal The other aspect I'd be interested in is feedback on my implementation of the rules .... Have I implemented them too rigidly and too harshly? or Have I implimented them too loosely and vaguely? The advantage of rigidity is that it should be clear to all where they stand. It will sometimes appear that I'm being harsh though! The advantage of applying the rules flexibly is that it's less severe and helps maintain the friendly spirit of the competition - the disadvantage is that it opens the door for people to potentially take advantage (there's always someone who wants to take advantage - even in a community as great as ours!) and it makes it tougher to decide when to implement the rules (and when not to) - it's tougher to manage, and it's tougher for players to know what they can do as well. Anyone sitting on the fence and saying something along the lines of "it's just about right" will be shot. No Exceptions. I'm after honest feedback - nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooloovoo Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: New Team Challenge proposal Well shoot me, but rigid is good. You're not harsh when you see to it that the rules are being followed. But, we could use a simpler approach in the next challenge, as have been discussed here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGremlin Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: New Team Challenge proposal Tempting ..... I believe you're wrong ..... however I believe you're right too often for me to back that up with money ;tongue2 Damn, I wanted a piece of that bet too :tongue2 The rules in the Challenge have been very flexible with everyone being able to play on whatever site at whatever time. That has been one of the best aspects of this challenge. I hope we won't lose to much of that convenience in the next Challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted June 22, 2009 Author Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: New Team Challenge proposal Well shoot me, but rigid is good. You're not harsh when you see to it that the rules are being followed. But, we could use a simpler approach in the next challenge, as have been discussed here Would your view be the same if Mattys win last night had been voided? (as it nearly was) :tongue2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooloovoo Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Re: New Team Challenge proposal Would your view be the same if Mattys win last night had been voided? (as it nearly was) :tongue2 I would have been perfectly ok with that. No-one is expecting you to go that extra mile and search at Sharkscope. Rules are rules :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Re: New Team Challenge proposal I'll give you evens it's not over by the end of July. ;) Sign me up for this rare piece of value :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sugleh Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Re: New Team Challenge proposal Gaf, I think you have sometimes given people too much slack. Why they can't post screenshot when they cash in a tourney I don't understand. I also saw that people had edited declaration post and did not understand why nobody made a fuss. The rules should be very strict when there is so much flexibility and people should follow them. So my view is that you have implemented the rules too loosely. Only just. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Re: New Team Challenge proposal I'll give you evens it's not over by the end of July. ;) Sign me up for this rare piece of value :ok Just to be clear (I don't think I phrased it very well), I'm willing to bet that it won't be over by the end of July. If you want to bet that it will, then sure. Anything you like up to $50. Loser transfers on Stars or Full Tilt? (If it's ended by a July 31 game, then you win, even if it's actually the early hours of August 1st.) (Sorry for hijacking the thread! :$) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Re: New Team Challenge proposal GaF, I'm happy with all the decisions you've made. I don't think it really matters that much whether you're strict or lenient, so long as you're consistent, which I think you have been. It would obviously have been better if we'd had comprehensive rules in place beforehand on how irregularities would be dealt with, but first time round it was hard to predict all the situations that would arise, so (especially at the beginning) it was inevitable that you'd have to make a few decisions on the fly about rules. But if we did it again, I'd favour simplifying things a bit, putting more of the onus on players to make sure they followed the rules. Tournament number, site, buy-in and (for scheduled tournaments) start time to be posted before the tournament starts. Screenshot to be posted within an hour of finishing, if winnings are being claimed. If any of this is missing, or if an ineligible tournament is played, or if the tournament is not played (without notice being given before the start), then buy-in is forfeited and no winnings credited. No replacement games allowed in such circumstances. I don't really think it's necessary to insist on posting a screenshot at the start for SnGs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppie Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Re: New Team Challenge proposal I'll have some of that please slap,i think it will be done way before then-guess i'll take anything that's left:ok Just to be clear (I don't think I phrased it very well)' date=' I'm willing to bet that it [b']won't be over by the end of July. If you want to bet that it will, then sure. Anything you like up to $50. Loser transfers on Stars or Full Tilt? (If it's ended by a July 31 game, then you win, even if it's actually the early hours of August 1st.) (Sorry for hijacking the thread! :$) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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