Did I play this hand really bad?

[bacardirum]

New to cash game so learning process, overall from my $60.50 bankroll starting at $0.50/$1.00 I am up over $200 in two days, so not bad, but this hand was my biggest loss. Just wanted to know where I went wrong and what I could have done better. I am rsaver. PokerStars Game #27830719328: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2009/05/05 2:03:36 WET [2009/05/04 21:03:36 ET] Table 'Endymion III' 9-max Seat #8 is the button Seat 1: rsaver ($97.50 in chips) Seat 2: yeshwana ($97.85 in chips) Seat 3: Casajonsen ($128.80 in chips) Seat 4: Kingcovey ($100 in chips) Seat 7: gfdsa ($116.45 in chips) Seat 8: p1ng1 ($130.60 in chips) Seat 9: $BeTuDo$187 ($20.40 in chips) $BeTuDo$187: posts small blind $0.50 rsaver: posts big blind $1 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to rsaver [Qh 9h] yeshwana: folds Casajonsen: folds Kingcovey: folds gfdsa: raises $2 to $3 p1ng1: folds $BeTuDo$187: folds rsaver: calls $2 *** FLOP *** [Kh Ts 3h] rsaver: checks gfdsa: bets $5 rsaver: calls $5 *** TURN *** [Kh Ts 3h] [5h] rsaver: checks gfdsa: bets $10 rsaver: raises $10 to $20 gfdsa: calls $10 *** RIVER *** [Kh Ts 3h 5h] [Td] rsaver: bets $14 gfdsa: raises $74.45 to $88.45 and is all-in rsaver: calls $55.50 and is all-in Uncalled bet ($18.95) returned to gfdsa *** SHOW DOWN *** gfdsa: shows [Tc Ks] (a full house, Tens full of Kings) Casajonsen leaves the table rsaver: shows [Qh 9h] (a flush, King high) rsaver said, "nh" gfdsa collected $192.50 from pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot $195.50 | Rake $3 Board [Kh Ts 3h 5h Td] Seat 1: rsaver (big blind) showed [Qh 9h] and lost with a flush, King high Seat 2: yeshwana folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: Casajonsen folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: Kingcovey folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 7: gfdsa showed [Tc Ks] and won ($192.50) with a full house, Tens full of Kings Seat 8: p1ng1 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 9: $BeTuDo$187 (small blind) folded before Flop

[billy the punter]

Re: Did I play this hand really bad? You're always going to do some money here but after you kept it cheap (and the pot small) on the turn could could've saved a few quid after the river. I would've checked/called the river. If you check there is $56 in the pot. The most he would've bet is $55 and you would've saved $30. $30 saved buys as much as $30 won. Once you've checked he may have tried to "sell" his hand and bet less than $55. As you bet out, you declared strength and that allowed him to believe he would get paid with an all-in.

[SteveO]

Re: Did I play this hand really bad? Just looking through your threads you seem to be calling with a lotd of tricky suited hands that are not drawing to the nutflush and in this situation you are also out of position. Fold preflop would have been your best option. You actually flopped a pretty massive draw but your opponent flopped a monster too. I probably would have check raised the flop here and the opponent would probably have jammed and I could have gotten away from it. Your bet on the river actually told you the opponent had you beat. Would he make that play with AK or A10 highly unlikely. You could have checked called the river as another option too as he would be likely to bluff with a missed draw but unlikely to call abet with a worse hand.

[billy the punter]

Re: Did I play this hand really bad? I think calling preflop should depend on ability/experience. If you are learning the game or are inexperienced you should avoid playing these sort of trouble hannds - as Steve says. :ok

[bacardirum]

Re: Did I play this hand really bad? I take all your points on board, I don't know if my thinking process was correct, I didnt have him on two pair K 10 from his raise, as I dont see this as a raising hand before flop really, I had him on A K, K Q or a low end pair, obviously I was wrong, but why did he call the turn with only two pair, I re-raised and the flush had now come, at this point I was correct and my hand was winning, should I have moved all in? As you both say, the river was my worse play, I really played this bad, I could have saved money by doing the bet I did and then folding with the all-in, or checking it. He was fortunate to catch the 10 on river, at this point though I really did not have him on K 10, hence the call, but overall then very bad play from myself, thanks for the tips ;)

[billy the punter]

Re: Did I play this hand really bad?

I take all your points on board' date=' I don't know if my thinking process was correct, I didnt have him on two pair K 10 from his raise, as I dont see this as a raising hand before flop really, I had him on A K, K Q or a low end pair, obviously I was wrong, but why did he call the turn with only two pair, I re-raised and the flush had now come, at this point I was correct and my hand was winning, [b']should I have moved all in?

Possibly. It was correct for him to call with just two pair, even if he has seen your hole cards he should still call. It was only $10 and due to pot and implied odds he was getting over 12/1 to hit his house. Also, do not think that people only raise prelfop with big hands, players have all different ranges, especially if no one has entered the pot befoer hand.

[bacardirum]

Re: Did I play this hand really bad? Thats part of my game I sure need to learn on, as if the action was reversed and I had K 10, and I could see the opponents whole cards and he had the flush I would fold, as only 2 cards in the deck I can win the hand with and I wouldnt like those odds for it coming on the river, but then again as only having to call $10 to see the next card, different matter, so I think all in on the turn was probaly best, as if it was reversed then I could not call the all in when other player already has flush, or would that still be a call?

[billy the punter]

Re: Did I play this hand really bad?

Thats part of my game I sure need to learn on' date=' as if the action was reversed and I had K 10, and I could see the opponents whole cards and he had the flush I would fold, as only 2 cards in the deck I can win the hand with and I wouldnt like those odds for it coming on the river, but then again as only having to call $10 to see the next card, different matter, so I think all in on the turn was probaly best, as if it was reversed then I could not call the all in when other player already has flush, or would that still be a call?[/quote'] It's about odds. The probability/odds of hitting your hands relating to the odds you are getting. Firstly he has 4 cards to hit, not 2. There are two 10's and two K's left in the pack. He is about a 9/1 shot to hit. When you forced him to call $10 more the pot was $46. So he was getting 9/2. However then you must look at what you could win if you hit, is there likely to be more betting after the river. In this case there was. His $10 call ended up winning him around $120. Somtimes you must call even when you know you are behind, providing the rewards are there if you hit.

[bacardirum]

Re: Did I play this hand really bad? Ahh yeah I understand there are 4 cards, sorry I never wrote it well, I was just meaning to say there were only two cards that could help him K or 10, but yeah 4 overall, my poker terms even suck lol I completely understand what you are saying, it would have been very bad had he not called the $10 raise I made. But tell me, you are opponent ok, you now know I have flush, you K 10, river to come, I push all in $100 or so. Are you calling this or is this is a fold, already knowing what cards I have.

[billy the punter]

Re: Did I play this hand really bad?

Ahh yeah I understand there are 4 cards, sorry I never wrote it well, I was just meaning to say there were only two cards that could help him K or 10, but yeah 4 overall, my poker terms even suck lol I completely understand what you are saying, it would have been very bad had he not called the $10 raise I made. But tell me, you are opponent ok, you now know I have flush, you K 10, river to come, I push all in $100 or so. Are you calling this or is this is a fold, already knowing what cards I have.

No I don't call $100 to hit my four outs as I wouldn't be getting correct odds to make the call. I'm 9/1 to hit a house, this pot cannot even reach $200 so a call of $100 isn't value. If you were sitting with $2000 then I may think about calling $100 to hit.

[SteveO]

Re: Did I play this hand really bad? Had you pushed allin on the turn Bacardium realistically you're only getting called by a higher flush maybe a set (depends on opponent). So you need to weight your bet so that your opponent is getting incorrect odds to call. Imagine though if you had bet say $40 on the turn and your opponent shoves and you now have to call and he shows the nut flush. Non flush hands can pose big problems especially when you have little info on opponents.

[ubermonkey1]

Re: Did I play this hand really bad? moved this into cash:ok i agree with billy,it's a check call in this situation. you bet enough so that the opponent has you trapped,as billy says you'll still lose some ,but not as much if you just check and every penny counts.

[Paul176]

Re: Did I play this hand really bad? Can't really comment on the river action because I'm a long way off 100NL and the turn action has been mentioned by other people. What I'll add is that the hand ends up being very hard to play because of the call out of the BB. Its hard to play hands like Q9 suited out of position as they make so many marginal hands and risk being dominated. I'm not sure about fullring but in a 6 max game I would say a light 3bet preflop would be a better option than a call. Weaker hands (don't know if will call with K10 at 100 NL?) fold and you will know you're up against a big hand and therefore what you are likely good with. Its always going to be hard playing this without position when you hit unless you flop two pair or a house.

[Villagio]

Re: Did I play this hand really bad? If I read this right and you're playing NL100 tables on a $260 bankroll you need to move down. And soon. I'm fairly new here but I dare say there are a good few threads on bankroll management. If you want to use it to build up I wouldn't be playing higher than $10 tables (5c/10c).

[radiator]

Re: Did I play this hand really bad?

New to cash game so learning process, overall from my $60.50 bankroll starting at $0.50/$1.00 I am up over $200 in two days, so not bad, but this hand was my biggest loss. Just wanted to know where I went wrong and what I could have done better. I am rsaver. PokerStars Game #27830719328: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2009/05/05 2:03:36 WET [2009/05/04 21:03:36 ET] Table 'Endymion III' 9-max Seat #8 is the button Seat 1: rsaver ($97.50 in chips) Seat 2: yeshwana ($97.85 in chips) Seat 3: Casajonsen ($128.80 in chips) Seat 4: Kingcovey ($100 in chips) Seat 7: gfdsa ($116.45 in chips) Seat 8: p1ng1 ($130.60 in chips) Seat 9: $BeTuDo$187 ($20.40 in chips) $BeTuDo$187: posts small blind $0.50 rsaver: posts big blind $1 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to rsaver [Qh 9h] yeshwana: folds Casajonsen: folds Kingcovey: folds gfdsa: raises $2 to $3 p1ng1: folds $BeTuDo$187: folds rsaver: calls $2 *** FLOP *** [Kh Ts 3h] rsaver: checks gfdsa: bets $5 rsaver: calls $5 *** TURN *** [Kh Ts 3h] [5h] rsaver: checks gfdsa: bets $10 rsaver: raises $10 to $20 gfdsa: calls $10 *** RIVER *** [Kh Ts 3h 5h] [Td] rsaver: bets $14 gfdsa: raises $74.45 to $88.45 and is all-in rsaver: calls $55.50 and is all-in Uncalled bet ($18.95) returned to gfdsa *** SHOW DOWN *** gfdsa: shows [Tc Ks] (a full house, Tens full of Kings) Casajonsen leaves the table rsaver: shows [Qh 9h] (a flush, King high) rsaver said, "nh" gfdsa collected $192.50 from pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot $195.50 | Rake $3 Board [Kh Ts 3h 5h Td] Seat 1: rsaver (big blind) showed [Qh 9h] and lost with a flush, King high Seat 2: yeshwana folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: Casajonsen folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: Kingcovey folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 7: gfdsa showed [Tc Ks] and won ($192.50) with a full house, Tens full of Kings Seat 8: p1ng1 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 9: $BeTuDo$187 (small blind) folded before Flop

First mistake is calling with Q9s from the blinds. If you are not experienced you should not play this hand. 2nd You will not get any better flop than that for your Q9s hand, so CHECK/RAISE that flop and do not be afraid to go all in here, because at worst your equity here is about 33% if he has KK, if he has KT your chances for winning are 40%, but most of the time he will not have anything, and he fold, which means most of the time you will win dead money here and it will compensate your loses you make in 40-60 situation But of course you cannot afford those aggressive moves, because you do not have enough BR for that, therefore you should never even play NL 100. Now if we somehow do not raise on flop, and We play like you did, then we have to raise turn bigger, to at least 27 or 30, now he will have tougher decision calling or folding. So lets say we raised to 30 on turn and he call, that means there is 76 $ in the pot and we have 40 left, this is an easy all in for us, if he has full house don't care about it, coz you only need to win 30% of the time to make a profitable all in move on river.

[AJ]

Re: Did I play this hand really bad?

If I read this right and you're playing NL100 tables on a $260 bankroll you need to move down. And soon. I'm fairly new here but I dare say there are a good few threads on bankroll management. If you want to use it to build up I wouldn't be playing higher than $10 tables (5c/10c).

Agreed, disaster will strike you very soon. For the longer term you should aim at 5% of bankroll at the table

[stpokered]

Re: Did I play this hand really bad? Think your call oop preflop is ambitious but if you have been playing this guy for a while and know his style call is acceptable Call is ok on flop, but personally would have raised Turn min reraise if fine River- think this is biggest mistake. I like how you bet out obtaining value from weaker hands but calling the reraise is certainly a mistake... there is no hand you can beat apart from a 'tom dwan' world class bluff which is extremely unlikely As for bankroll management agree with AJ

[dazdiamonds]

Re: Did I play this hand really bad? bankroll bankroll

[pad]

Re: Did I play this hand really bad? As you said you are new, but you plays wells. Once you become experienced you can do well.

[AJ]

Re: Did I play this hand really bad?

New to cash game so learning process' date=' overall from my $60.50 bankroll starting at $0.50/$1.00 I am up over $200 in two days, so not bad, but this hand was my biggest loss. [b']Just wanted to know where I went wrong and what I could have done better. I am rsaver.

A preflop fold would have been better as others have said. Not too much wrong, it's a difficult call at the end. Shouldn't have been in the situation.