GaF Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 A appreciate that so much of the answer will be "it depends" - who is the raiser? How often has he been raising? Does he fold to 3bets often? How much did he raise? etc..... So I'm not looking for a specific answer (because I havent asked a specific question) ..... just generally looking for a discussion on the situation where we have AKo in the small blind (i.e. we are out of position) and at least one player has raised into us - what's the general gameplan for AKo here? Will put up results from the database of how we do when we fold, call or raise in a bit (I havent looked yet - so this scenario is not driven by the results I see....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted March 4, 2009 Author Share Posted March 4, 2009 Re: 200902 Benchmarking Scenario 3 - AKo in Small Blind facing raise - Fold/Limp/Rais Just crunched the numbers (wont put them up straight away to give time for a few views first :hope) - but it's a disappointing sample size again (as I feared it would be :wall :wall) - just 48 times this has occured between us - think I need to make the scenarios a little vaguer for the moment until we have more hands..... However, despite the sample size, the results are exactly as I would have expected - but the actions players took are a major surprise to me, and not as I would have expected at all.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted March 4, 2009 Author Share Posted March 4, 2009 Re: 200902 Benchmarking Scenario 3 - AKo in Small Blind facing raise - Fold/Limp/Rais Ok - here's the results: Top table is all AKo in the SB where you face a raise before you second table is where you fold to the raise third table is where you call the raise bottom table is where you reraise We have 48 hands in total - yet when you add up the other 3 tables it comes to 52 hands - somehow 4 of the hands seem to be counted twice - my best guess is that this is where you face 2 decisions pre flop (i.e. you make your play and then someone else raises and it comes back round to you). Poor sample, but reraising has come out more profitable than limping as I would have expected - would anyone disagree, that being out of position, reraising is the recommended play rather than simply calling? If the statement above is accepted, then the question has to be - why do you call (28 time) more frequently than you raise (23 times)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadlydaveLDN Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Re: 200902 Benchmarking Scenario 3 - AKo in Small Blind facing raise - Fold/Limp/Rais Before I saw the stats, my answer was going to be that I would re-raise 4x raise almost always. Very occasionally a fold is possible, sometimes I will raise a different amount, calling isn't an option IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted March 4, 2009 Author Share Posted March 4, 2009 Re: 200902 Benchmarking Scenario 3 - AKo in Small Blind facing raise - Fold/Limp/Rais calling isn't an option IMO. Whilst I agree with that - I often find myself facing what seems a bit of a paradox here ..... and I've never fully got my head around it.... Perhaps I can illustrate it by giving two possible different thought processes.... - "I'm out of position - I only have Ace high and will miss the flop 2 times out of 3 - I want to control the pot size - I'd much rather play big pots when I have position and small pots when I'm out of position, so I'll limp - if I raise pre flop, I usually have to cbet the flop and players fight back against that too often now" - "I have AK - I have a premium hand. I'll probably miss the flop and only have Ace high, but my opponent will probably miss the flop as well and by raising now I can grab the initiative and will often take the pot down post flop with a cbet. My pre flop 3 bet may even take it down as well and I'm happy to take down my opponents PFR uncontested. I'm out of position, so I cannot limp and see the flop as I have the disadvantage post flop - best to get as much money in now as I can whilst the advantage is mine." Can you see the conflict in my thinking? (I sense another argument with myself coming up here :tongue2) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Player004 Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Re: 200902 Benchmarking Scenario 3 - AKo in Small Blind facing raise - Fold/Limp/Rais I will raise mostly if it is folded round to the button. I will think about raising if there are limpers and the button raised initially. If it is a raise from early position and there are callers I will just call, I find down here that once a player (especially a loose player) has made one call he will make another one. If that happens and I miss the flop the I face having to c-bet into multiple opponents or check/folding. Again, small sample but I'm happy with how I am playing it at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhornet Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Re: 200902 Benchmarking Scenario 3 - AKo in Small Blind facing raise - Fold/Limp/Rais I formulated my response before reading the rest of the thread, and I'm in agreement with Dave that in a short handed cash game the re-raise from the SB is the most profitable route to take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubermonkey1 Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Re: 200902 Benchmarking Scenario 3 - AKo in Small Blind facing raise - Fold/Limp/Rais yeah shorthanded it's gotta be a reraise 99%of the time,maybe the only situation i wouldn't is against an opponent that i know will keep betting regardless(so hyper aggressive/stupid/drunk:tongue2). so many players will be raiseing ax 6 handed that your much more likely to be ahead than in a ring game,also its more likely that they will happily lose a lot if the ace does drop and there's a decent pot already,so building a pot early is more important. if you are gonna call then you have to treat your hand as more disposable,you haven't shown any strength pre flop so a bluff is unlikely to work.if you hit a ace or king then it's worth going to town with but otherwise i'd check fold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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