heniek31 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 First of all, I'm not even in this hand. I see this sort of play all the time, and I wonder where the hell is sens of playing that way? It looks like a bad play. Basically, there are few limpers and comes standard 3x raise :unsure. What is this guy thinking? What is he going to achieve by that bet? Its just my opinion, but that bet is pointless. In this hand, we have 2 limpers and guy raises 3x with KQ. So there are still B, SB, BB and two limpers to act. And please, no one says to build up the pot, cause its bollocks. If some one pushes. whats then? Looking at that play, he probably will think: "well I have to call now". If he raises to 7-800, he will probably will take it down without a showdown. By this bet, he will show, that he is committed if some one pushes. With his stack, he cant afford to give away 300 without seeing the flop. He can easily limp in as well and fold to any raise without losing to much. Even if has AA and wants people in that pot, he can expect (looking at stacks of other 5 players in that hand) 3-5 callers. In that case hes AA might be as good as dead. In conclusion, (and IMO) this must be the worst choice of bet in this particular hand. But feel free to disagree and call me stupid if you wish :ok. I will post the outcome of that hand, which I said its not that important for this tread anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Re: What people think when they play like that? yeah, it's a shocker. Limp then push/fold I think is my play here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodie Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Re: What people think when they play like that? Yeah this is one of the plays that really tilts me up say there 4 5 limpers and the bb min raises omg! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heniek31 Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 Re: What people think when they play like that? Yeah this is one of the plays that really tilts me up say there 4 5 limpers and the bb min raises omg! :lol See that every day. Totally insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocket Lady Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Re: What people think when they play like that? Screams pot steal to me - If I had anything then I would be pushing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanfaz Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Re: What people think when they play like that? That was a bad raise......all he achieves is a bigger pot - although he is in position. Against one limper thats a good play but not against 3. The only hand i would make this raise with would be a pocket pair in order to build the pot for if i hit my set, but i reckon i would need a bigger stack for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Re: What people think when they play like that? What about this for a cunning play. On my BB too. :@ ***** Betfair Poker Hand History for Game 486204019 ***** NL Texas Hold'em $55 Buy-in + $5 Entry Fee, Level:1 Blinds(10/20-(no ante)) - Sunday, February 22, 19:49:14 GMT 2009 $5,000 Guaranteed NLH Deep Stack #217026 Table 2 9-max (Real Money) Seat 4 is the button Total number of active players : 9 Seat 1: maj263211 ( 6,370 ) Seat 2: maxkukk ( 4,950 ) Seat 3: panikos ( 5,000 ) Seat 4: chief ( 3,920 ) Seat 5: oversleep ( 4,980 ) Seat 6: Harold Boom ( 4,970 ) Seat 7: elephant12 ( 4,960 ) Seat 8: MikeV ( 5,000 ) Seat 9: falaus ( 4,850 ) Tourney Level:1 Blinds(10/20-(no ante)) oversleep posts small blind [10] Harold Boom posts big blind [20] ** Dealing down cards ** Dealt to Harold Boom [ 7c, As ] elephant12 folds MikeV folds falaus raises to [2,780] maj263211 folds maxkukk folds panikos folds chief folds oversleep folds Harold Boom folds Returning uncalled bet [2,760] to falaus ** Hand Conclusion ** falaus wins 50 from main pot ************ Game 486204019 ends ************ :rollin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1907zico Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Re: What people think when they play like that? I played like that, when I started but reading around and thinking about if it makes sense. Its just nonsense if you hold no pocketpair, because you take high risk to lose the chips you raised when someone reraises or calls you and hits a good flop. Especially with AK I prefer to see the flop first, looks like a good hand at first, but can be so tricky often :lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Re: What people think when they play like that? :lol I like he actually took the time to type in the figure, he didn't even just click all-in!! I wonder how he arrived at that particular figure, and I wonder if he would have folded to a shove :rollin What about this for a cunning play. On my BB too. :@ ***** Betfair Poker Hand History for Game 486204019 ***** NL Texas Hold'em $55 Buy-in + $5 Entry Fee, Level:1 Blinds(10/20-(no ante)) - Sunday, February 22, 19:49:14 GMT 2009 $5,000 Guaranteed NLH Deep Stack #217026 Table 2 9-max (Real Money) Seat 4 is the button Total number of active players : 9 Seat 1: maj263211 ( 6,370 ) Seat 2: maxkukk ( 4,950 ) Seat 3: panikos ( 5,000 ) Seat 4: chief ( 3,920 ) Seat 5: oversleep ( 4,980 ) Seat 6: Harold Boom ( 4,970 ) Seat 7: elephant12 ( 4,960 ) Seat 8: MikeV ( 5,000 ) Seat 9: falaus ( 4,850 ) Tourney Level:1 Blinds(10/20-(no ante)) oversleep posts small blind [10] Harold Boom posts big blind [20] ** Dealing down cards ** Dealt to Harold Boom [ 7c, As ] elephant12 folds MikeV folds falaus raises to [2,780] maj263211 folds maxkukk folds panikos folds chief folds oversleep folds Harold Boom folds Returning uncalled bet [2,760] to falaus ** Hand Conclusion ** falaus wins 50 from main pot ************ Game 486204019 ends ************ :rollin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooloovoo Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Re: What people think when they play like that? Especially with AK I prefer to see the flop first........ looks like a good hand at first' date=' but can be so tricky often[/quote'] Maybe i misread this, but if you talk about limping with AK, that's almost always a terrible play. AK plays well against few (preferably one) opponents. You DON'T want lots of limpers, hitting their two pairs and fluke straights, THEN it gets tricky to play postflop. With AK, you should settle for winning a small pot, it's not the kind of hand that will make you the most chips IMO EDIT: Saw in another thread that you are new to poker, i certainly didn't mean to have a go at you :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1907zico Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Re: What people think when they play like that? Maybe i misread this' date=' but if you talk about [b']limping with AK, that's almost always a terrible play. AK plays well against few (preferably one) opponents. You DON'T want lots of limpers, hitting their two pairs and fluke straights, THEN it gets tricky to play postflop. With AK, you should settle for winning a small pot, it's not the kind of hand that will make you the most chips IMO EDIT: Saw in another thread that you are new to poker, i certainly didn't mean to have a go at you :ok Just trying to contribute and write down what I actually (as a newcomer) think, so that I get good critical feedback. What I mean was, I often see people raise pre-flop with AK thinking they hold a good hand. I dont think thats quite smart personally, because there may be people with either pocket pairs or others holding an A or K in their hands. When I hold AK myself, I try to get the flop cheap (limping?) and then see how my oppenents react on that and in addition see if I hit anything.. :unsure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooloovoo Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Re: What people think when they play like that? I often see people raise pre-flop with AK thinking they hold a good hand. My point is that AK IS a good hand, so you want to raise preflop to extract value, which comes from people calling your raise with lesser hands. How you play AK postflop depends on alot of things, for example: - Your position - Your opponents position(s) - Your stack size - Your opponents stack size(s) - Your opponents playing style(s) - Your perceived playing style (your table image) - The texture of the flop Note that this list is ranked from most important to less important! Also, if you are in a tournament, there is other factors to weigh in aswell, such as possibility of elimination versus building stack (risk/reward ratio) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1907zico Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Re: What people think when they play like that? I see, thanks for that list :ok In tournaments were people tend to call everything to double for example I dislike raising AK, but your right if I have position plus I play against tight players (and have more than average stack) I would probably raise AK. That is what I like in poker, there is almost no perfect or already perfect move given, which you have to do in order to win a specific hand. :lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanfaz Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Re: What people think when they play like that? I see, thanks for that list :ok In tournaments were people tend to call everything to double for example I dislike raising AK, but your right if I have position plus I play against tight players (and have more than average stack) I would probably raise AK. That is what I like in poker, there is almost no perfect or already perfect move given, which you have to do in order to win a specific hand. :lol AK is a premium hand and on ethat you should not be scared to raise, especially when in position. It is also a great re-raising hand when the blinds are significant. Also the main strength of AK is to re-raise/steal with, as much of the time when you get called, you will be at least 50% +fold equity, but there are many factors which should influence the way bthat you play AK.In this particular scenario, i.e. playing after 3 limpers, you want to be raising a good 5x maybe 6x the blind of 20 to 100-120 as it plays badly multi-way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1907zico Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Re: What people think when they play like that? AK is a premium hand and on ethat you should not be scared to raise' date=' especially when in position. It is also a great re-raising hand when the blinds are significant. Also the main strength of AK is to re-raise/steal with, as much of the time when you get called, you will be at least 50% +fold equity, but there are many factors which should influence the way bthat you play AK.In this particular scenario, i.e. playing after 3 limpers, you want to be raising a good 5x maybe 6x the blind of 20 to 100-120 as it plays badly multi-way.[/quote'] Alright I see all your points mates, thanks for your great input ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatoman Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Re: What people think when they play like that? Well... i have a different point of view here Hen... Im not saying hes making a great move, but for me, hes just taking advantage of the limpers (maybe with the HH one can see how limpers those guys were before that particular hand) and hes just building a pot with position against weak opponents. I just think that if you are not getting any decent cards to play with, the best option is to pick on a weak player and extract as much chips as possible (and the perfect case would be a weak passive limper). And the guy had like 23bb, so if he gets a reraise hes not commited, he will still have his healthy 20bb stack if he folds. However, if he gets called by two of these guys or at least one he would probably make 8.5bb if they fold the flop, so thats almost 40% of his initial stack. One more thing... i wouldnt have done that with less than 30bb and i would have raised 4x (I dont see the point raising to 8bb and then get commited with such a lousy hand as QKo.... its a 5.5 buyin so if there is an agressive donk sitting on BB he will shove 22 no matter what, they dont think, they just see their hole cards and hope they have a race) Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanfaz Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Re: What people think when they play like that? No, i think this raise is really just a terrible play! by raising 3xbb with 23bbs, he loses 3 and goes down to 20bbs. So he has committed around 12% of his stack (a considerable amount) into a multi-way pot with nothing. Really a bad play, even by your logic chatoman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heniek31 Posted February 24, 2009 Author Share Posted February 24, 2009 Re: What people think when they play like that? and hes just building a pot with position against weak opponents As I said before, pot building in this hand is not a term I would use. If I raise like that I don't want more than 1 caller. You forgetting, there are still 3 people to act (including button) after that bet plus 2 limpers. And the guy had like 23bb, so if he gets a re raise hes not committed, he will still have his healthy 20bb stack if he folds. I never said in my original post, he will be committed after his raise. I said, If he raises 7x, he will show strength and then he will be committed and then it might force others to fold. As you said, this MTT is a donk fest, thats why I don't want people calling me. Whats actually happened was, flop came KK6 and the guy was out. Of course he was unlucky, but bigger raise might have put 66 off calling it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatoman Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Re: What people think when they play like that? What actually happened was, flop came KK6 and the guy was out. Of course he was unlucky, but bigger raise might have put 66 off calling it. I have played in those tourneys..... 2 players limp and i made a raise of 15bb leaving 1bb behind with hands like AQ, KQs, AJ and people FLAT CALL!!!!! with small pockets, it's just terrible But now lets say the guy just limped and saw a KK6 flop, what situation is better if you have QK? A raised pot or a limped pot. Or try 8 T 3 rainbow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanfaz Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Re: What people think when they play like that? Why raise 15bb and leave 1 behind lol? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatoman Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Re: What people think when they play like that? Why raise 15bb and leave 1 behind lol? Just a way of saying shove.. im not folding :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.