elchillum Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Hello punters ... I dont post a lot but I read this forum pretty frequently cuz it has tons of valuable info ... This is a help me topic ... uff ... where should I begin? ... - Bout two years ago I sometimes uploaded some money to play poker (low blinds, but i wos a fool cuz i overplayed the blinds in function to my bank roll) - With paradise i uploaded 500€ and in the end I did withdraw 636€, after i touched 800 € and dropped back, I decided to try another site ... - I uploaded 600 $ (remember i play 0.12/0.25$/€ antes) so that gives me at least 25 + tables where i can afford to lose in worst case ... I moved up to 880 $, since then nothing but losses and especially ... bad beats ... I modified my play many times ... slowplaying ... tight agressive ... loose agressive ... loose gay :D ... agressive on flop ... even with best hands etc ... but the bad beats came on and on and ... on ... and on ... Now I'm back where I've started ... my question? ... 1. as a new user, is it possible you have less bad beats at these websites? cuz whenever I change website I win, then I loose it all back again ... 2. Whot do you advise me to do? Keep on playing at this website (fulltilt) or try another one where I feel more confortable? 3. My selfconfidence has been hit I must say, though I did not loose any money so far, I know many of you have been in this situation, so please gimme some advise ... cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Re: Please help me :D Bad beats are a part of poker - almost everyone has the impression that they get more than their fair share of bad beats - the truth is, that's just human nature to think that - you dont receive any more bad beats than anyone else (over enough hands). In general, I would say you dont win more when new to a site and then lose when you've been there a while - the only caveat - maybe you change the way you play (in small ways that are difficult to see) after you have been at a site a while and when you switch you have more focus and concentration? Or maybe your game is too static and doesn't adjust to your opponents, who have now worked out how you play (There is a lot of data mining that happens at full tilt - previously legitimately, but now FT have said it cannot happen, though they have also said they dont intend to enforce it, so I presume everyone is still doing it). Do you use PT3 or HEM on FT? If you dont, you are probably at a disadvantage over a significant proportion of your opponents. If your self confidence is lacking, then you are unlikely to beat the games - I would recommend that you move down to lower stakes, a level you know you can beat, and win your confidence back. The final thing I would say is that I see two categories of poker players: - there are those who play for leisure only and dont work on developing their game - they do what they want to do, they take their enjoyment from it, and they (probably) eventually lose their bankroll at which point they deposit again. These players dont really understand the dynamics of what is happening at the table and they think they are just getting unlucky, suffering too many bad beats, the site is rigged etc.... - there are those who want to win and get their enjoyment from winning - they work on developing their game - they use tracking software, they read poker books, they participate in forums, they're members of training sites, they discuss hands, they analyse their game to plug leaks etc My impression is that the proportion of players in group 2 is increasing and the proportion of players in group 1 is decreasing - if you want to keep up with the game, if you want to win, if you want to improve, you need to make sure you are in group 2 and working on improving your game, not just playing your poker and cursing when you "get unlucky". Good luck - and keep us updated on how you get on :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGremlin Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Re: Please help me :D Hello, cash gamer :) 1 - I once had that theory too because I noticed that too, but never got conclusive proof. Might be all those guys with PT and other tracking software finding your weak spots when you stay there longer? 2 - Go for Rakeback deals if you decide to try a new site. Makes a big diffference on your winnings on those cash tables. 3 - Full Tilt has a lot of excellent players with a lot using tracking software. If you don't use tracking software yourself, get it or try a pokerroom where you know noone can use those tracking software. Everyone has downswings and bad beats. It's that evil demon varience. On other pokerroom you'll still find varience, but it might be good to get out of the network and play players that never played you before. GL whatever you decide to do :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elchillum Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share Posted January 17, 2009 Re: Please help me :D woooow thanks guys for your good comments ... - first of all, call me naive ... i thought it wos not legal to use tracking software for poker sites ... anyway, I dont use any of these ... I am more a tight player, play mostly 'the better hands' (and yes i call 66 ;) and not wait only for aa's and so on, but with 74 I NEVER call unless im really really drunk ;) - did check that rakestuff ... it worries me :D to be honest, cuz i assume it calculates all stats, tells you whot to do at whot point, how much to put in the pot, how to reraise etc etc etc ... no wonder I got myself a bad run, if other players use all that crap ... honestly, though this site is all about stats, i'd like to play poker without those tracking devices ... i assume party, pokerstars, paradise poker and so on all these software is legitimite ... are there also sites where it's forbidden? whot do you recommend me? play on sites where noone uses this thing? or get meself signed up for this thing on another site? ... now im also reading that rakething gives you extra money paying out the following month ... dont understand it really to be honest ... anyway last thing i wanted to say is that im not a mucking player ... you can be unlucky, and you could have made the wrong decision at a crucial point ... i think these two things are the difference between earning and losing money in general .... yesterday i lost AA a massive pot on the river, i knew on the turn i had the best hand, but wos not too agressive to get the player to the river, cuz i know on the river he bluffs to take the pot ... result wos he won with 777's on the river with no high card on the table! he raises the pot, and me stupidly overraised him ... that wos MY mistake ... but on the other table there wos agressive player on flop, 1 $ wos the pot ... j 10 2 on table! no flush chances! one moves all in 38$, i call ... he aj me j10 ... two following cards qq ... lost the hand ... that wos 'unlucky' and a real bad beat imo! If there are clean sites, please gimme some good uns:) cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubermonkey1 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Re: Please help me :D rakeback gives you a certain percentage of the money the site takes back:ok so if you get a 25%rakeback deal you get 25% of the amount you pay in rake back at the end of the month:D you dont really notice all those 10c that you put in as rake but it adds up and can quite easily be $100+,even for those who play low stakes:loon so you play as normal but get a nice little pot of money at the end of the month.this does not sound like a lot but it makes a massive difference in your profit ,especially if you play a lot. all you need to do is either join thru a site with a certain rakeback deal (there's loads out there)or sometimes you can contact support etc and they will sort it out for you,depends on the site really. keep watching pl tho, as i know good rakeback deals are one of the things we are trying to sort for all the loyal plers;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Re: Please help me :D The software is allowed (indeed deliberately supported) by most sites - it crosses the line if it tells you how to play, or gives you added information not from your own play (or own observations if allowed - which may be your PC opening and closing tables itself to collect data whilst you sleep). If you are playing on Full Tilt, your basic assumption must be that there are players you are against who have access to every (or a lot) of hands you've played in your poker career. Sites like sharkscope.com track tournament stats (if you've ever played tournaments, which I guess you will have, check it out). Few sites are "clean" from poker tracking software any more - indeed, off the top of my head, I cannot think of any that are not supported (or supported by 3rd party software to create hand histories) :loon The best option seems to be Cake poker which allows you to change your alias weekly (?? I think) - that stops people tracking you over time. You can try the software free for 30 days (I think) - either pokertracker or HoldemManager are the premier ones at the moment - so rather than try and hide from it, you could try embracing it ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Re: Please help me :D last thing i wanted to say is that im not a mucking player ... you can be unlucky, and you could have made the wrong decision at a crucial point ... i think these two things are the difference between earning and losing money in general .... yesterday i lost AA a massive pot on the river, i knew on the turn i had the best hand, but wos not too agressive to get the player to the river, cuz i know on the river he bluffs to take the pot ... result wos he won with 777's on the river with no high card on the table! he raises the pot, and me stupidly overraised him ... that wos MY mistake ... but on the other table there wos agressive player on flop, 1 $ wos the pot ... j 10 2 on table! no flush chances! one moves all in 38$, i call ... he aj me j10 ... two following cards qq ... lost the hand ... that wos 'unlucky' and a real bad beat imo! You are right - you can make the right decision in a hand and lose the hand, and you can make a wrong decision in the hand, yet win it. Over 1 hand - poker is almost 100% "luck". However, the more hands you play, the "luck" (more accurately called "short term variance") will balance itself out to close to the true probabilities. Over 1 million hands (indeed even as low as about 10,000 hands), poker is almost 0% "luck" - so "luck" (short term variance) is solely a function of how many hands you've played. As per my signature, your goal in poker is not to win money, your goal is to make the right decisions - make the right decisions and the money will follow (if it doesn't, then there is an error in your decisions....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elchillum Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share Posted January 17, 2009 Re: Please help me :D The software is allowed (indeed deliberately supported) by most sites - it crosses the line if it tells you how to play, or gives you added information not from your own play (or own observations if allowed - which may be your PC opening and closing tables itself to collect data whilst you sleep). If you are playing on Full Tilt, your basic assumption must be that there are players you are against who have access to every (or a lot) of hands you've played in your poker career. Sites like sharkscope.com track tournament stats (if you've ever played tournaments, which I guess you will have, check it out). Few sites are "clean" from poker tracking software any more - indeed, off the top of my head, I cannot think of any that are not supported (or supported by 3rd party software to create hand histories) :loon The best option seems to be Cake poker which allows you to change your alias weekly (?? I think) - that stops people tracking you over time. You can try the software free for 30 days (I think) - either pokertracker or HoldemManager are the premier ones at the moment - so rather than try and hide from it, you could try embracing it ;) thanks for the usefull information ... can someone else confirm that cakepoker you can change your nick at anytime? would be an ideal option to be honest ... also the rake thing seems interesting ... i play a lot (4 hours / day recently) so that might add up some value into my br ... cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGremlin Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Re: Please help me :D Pokersoftware is not illegal. They are awesome tools to analyse and improve your game quicker then you would be able without them. The fact of the matter is that these tools have become so good, that it gives people an noticeable advantage, especially on cash tables. They analyze not just their own game but also everyone else on the table. And they can often pull out the history of your HH from the sites. If you have leaks in your game then they will find it faster with the software. I agree with GaF that you should try out the software, I think both PT3 and HEM have a month free trial. It's a bitch to setup though :P The rake you contribute on each hand is a lot more then you might think over time and if you can get 25%~30% back, then it can be the difference between being an even cash player and a winning cash player. If you were able to play even without added help of software or rakeback then you might try with it and give Full Tilt another try. I think if you e-mail Full Tilt support they will give you 27% rakeback, if you haven't used an affilite yet when you signed up. I had the bad luck that I signed up without rakeback on FT for a $100 no deposit bonus in the past, and I can't get rakeback anymore on FT :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Re: Please help me :D I think if you e-mail Full Tilt support they will give you 27% rakeback, if you haven't used an affilite yet when you signed up. Initially they will tell you that they cannot put you on rakeback, but looking to see what they can do for players like you - they will put you on a list to contact you if they work something out ..... then a week or two later they'll transfer you to a rakeback account..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glceud Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Re: Please help me :D 1. as a new user, is it possible you have less bad beats at these websites? cuz whenever I change website I win, then I loose it all back again ... I believe all the sites are ligit and that poker tacker usage and the observational skills of some site regulars are the reason for the apparent good start at all sites followed by a leveling out or losing sequence. I will eventually get round to "project cake poker" to prove this:hope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nade Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Re: Please help me :D Get out while you can, it's all rigged for Russians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elchillum Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share Posted January 17, 2009 Re: Please help me :D I believe all the sites are ligit and that poker tacker usage and the observational skills of some site regulars are the reason for the apparent good start at all sites followed by a leveling out or losing sequence. I will eventually get round to "project cake poker" to prove this:hope whot do you mean by that? :D ps: on that website you can deposit with visa but not widraw money through that ... cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulioArca Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Re: Please help me :D Initially they will tell you that they cannot put you on rakeback' date=' but looking to see what they can do for players like you - they will put you on a list to contact you if they work something out ..... then a week or two later they'll transfer you to a rakeback account.....[/quote'] FT never got back to me when I enquired :sad So I now play elsewhere......and get 30% :nana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elchillum Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share Posted January 17, 2009 Re: Please help me :D ps: another question ... if i sign up for my rakeback (by entering my nickname via cake poker) and i change my nickname (which i see you can do like), is it then still linked at the new nickname you choose randomly? cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Re: Please help me :D I dont have a cake account, but would be confident they track you by account number or username rather than alias :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elchillum Posted January 18, 2009 Author Share Posted January 18, 2009 Re: Please help me :D okay ... i signed up at cake ... my br has been growing ever since ... i also signed up for that rakebrain stuff ... let's see how it goes! i keep you updated :) cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elchillum Posted January 19, 2009 Author Share Posted January 19, 2009 Re: Please help me :D - just wanted to add that on cake poker you can change your nickname weekly, but the place where you're from still remains, so i guess pple track you by 'city' then ... I have never played sit and go's to be honest ... my br is 500+- ... whot is the max for my br i should play in sng's? For ring games that's 100 x bb x25 ... cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Re: Please help me :D Most players will not manually sort names - the software wont match players by city (or even record the city) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elchillum Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 Re: Please help me :D nah just for the update ... past few weeks ive been PLAYING a lot :D ... innitially i moved up from 500 - 1000 and went back to 500 ... i slapped myself in the face and now i moved back up to 1200 ... but i feel a bit 'nuts' lately ... yesterday i really played like CRAP (first time since a few weeks) ... too nervous ... bad decisions (i did not lose any money cuz i wos lucky) but i have the same feeling again i had before when i moved up ... i play 12+1 sng's with blinds increasing every 6 mins (thanks to this i moved up cuz won sooo many) ... there are also sng's with 16+1 but binds increase every 2 mins (with 1500 chip stack 20/40 beginning blinds) it's really really fast fast fast and i noticed that my play changes (or too agressive or imponed by the others cuz they are too agressive) ... for the rest there are also 25+2 buy ins with blinds increasing every 6 mins (the game i used to play where i won) ... my question ...? is it worth playing a big higher (with br 1200) ... im affraid having a bad run and getting back frustrated ... cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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