happyhornet Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I don't know if anyone else thinks this, but I get the feeling that the play in these MTT's has gone from TAG to LAG to borderline insane. In a PL game we would have 80% still in by the first break, in some of these it is 30-40% or sometimes less. I can't count the number of times that the cards are face up following an all-in and someone has called with an inside draw or second pair. It seems like they can't play through the streets so they'll get their money in asap. I'm no Phil Ivey, but I have enough ability at the game (NLHE) to know go deep in these. However if you come up against these crank calls enough, it is a statistical probability that you will lose. My question is how do you combat these? Try playing a little tighter? Just accept that this is going to happen and it is a numbers game? Any thoughts would be appreciated! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodie Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Re: Low buy in MTT strategy, first few levels Good question, have you played them $4 180 man tournies on stars? imo the hardest part of them tournies is lasting the first 1 hour as long as I do that I'm fairly confident I will cash in them the play in the first hour is dire, someone calling a 3 bet with q10 oop and going all the way for that straight it's so sick play. I just tend to fold 90% hands oop and only limp in in position cause your raising gets no respect early on these games. If I have like a big pair bet big you usually get paid of they hold up. Then once it's down to about 80 runners I play my better game once the fish are out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muttley Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Re: Low buy in MTT strategy, first few levels Pretty much what Woodie says. :ok My strategy is supertight for the first hour, and if I do find myself in a pot to keep it small unless my hand is a monster. It's a tad dull, but many players at this level have no concept of pot odds and will call any bet with a couple of overcards or a draw to a straight or a flush. As long as there is a card in the deck that could give them a good hand they are going to stick around. In the early stages hands like J,J through 9,9 go down in value. A,K goes up in value a little as the donks like to play ace, rag.....this can be good if an ace comes on the board, because they'll think they've got a monster. Mind you, they'll probably donk their second pair on the river! More good advice from PL members on the "Donkey Slaying" thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Re: Low buy in MTT strategy, first few levels As Woodie says it is barely worth raising pre-flop, as raises get no respect whatsoever. Through the first 2 levels it is well worth seeing as many flops as you can - Pocket pairs, suited connectors, 1- and 2-gap connectors etc etc are all great hands to limp with at the low stake MTTs in the early levels as there's rarely a substantial raise and a good few will stay in for the flop - however ditch the cards on the flop unless you hit it real hard or have a monster draw. If you hit the flop hard then you need to decide how the board looks. If it's a really wet board with draws to hands that beat yours then it's smallball all the way. If it's a really wet board and you have a made monster that is unlikely to be beaten then crank that aggression up, because the fish with draws aren't going to consider they might be drawing dead - they just want to make that hand at all costs. If it's a dry board and you have a made hand it is probably best to let them catch up a bit and take their chips down later streets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Re: Low buy in MTT strategy, first few levels I get the feeling that the play in these MTT's has gone from TAG to LAG to borderline insane. If your opponents are playing worse (insanely) then that's good news for you - it means their mistakes are bigger and you'll be more profitable :ok The last thing you want is for your opponents to play better and make fewer and smaller mistakes. However if you come up against these crank calls enough' date=' it is a statistical probability that you will lose.[/quote'] If in a single MTT you get the money in as an overwhelming 70% favourite 10 times, you will only win all ten once every 35 MTTs - that means for 34 out of the 35 MTTs you will get turned over when a 70% favourite. That doesn't however mean you're wrong to go into these. That 1 time in 35 that you win all 10 - if you start with 1500 chips and double up 10 times (over simplistic because of blinds and you wont always double up, however accurate enough to illustrate the point), then you have 768,000 chips (or 512x your starting stack). What does that mean? If these are 512 runner MTTs - 34 times out of 35 you will be turned over when a favourite, but 1 time in 35 you will win the tournament - that gives you a massive massive massive ROI (and dont forget that the 34 times you lose, sometimes you'll win the first 9 and then lose the 10th, meaning you cash probably in 2nd). If you enter a 512 runner MTT every day, then you should win once every 17 months or so, where noone has any skill edge - with the example above, you'll be winning once a month - 17 times more often than if you played as insanely badly as your opponents - even though you're getting turned over in 34 tournaments from 35. So yes - you must accept it will just happen - it happens to everyone, but it's in your favour - you want it to happen - so next time you're turned over, smile happily to yourself in the knowledge that you've profited from his play, and that the money will be shipped to you at a later date :) You must forget individual results - they really dont matter (even if they see you getting knocked out of the tournament) - all that matters is "Did you make the right play" - if you did - that's great - the outcome of that specific hand on that specific occasion is insignificant, you made a profit :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Re: Low buy in MTT strategy, first few levels You must forget individual results - they really dont matter (even if they see you getting kocked out of the tournament) - all that matters is "Did you make the right play" - if you did - that's great - the outcome of that specific hand on that specific occasion is insignificant' date=' you made a profit :ok[/quote'] If you dont trust me, take Doyles word for it ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Re: Low buy in MTT strategy, first few levels . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Re: Low buy in MTT strategy, first few levels ...even if they see you getting kocked out of the tournament Heh, that made me chuckle. Donked out is soooo last year :lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Re: Low buy in MTT strategy, first few levels Heh, that made me chuckle. Donked out is soooo last year :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubermonkey1 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Re: Low buy in MTT strategy, first few levels Heh, that made me chuckle. Donked out is soooo last year :lol :rollin:rollin:rollin good post above tho gaf:clap:clap:clap nobody wins everytime,it's about doing the best you can as often as possible:ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELCAKER Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Re: Low buy in MTT strategy, first few levels with insanity going on around you, tighten up and play position much more strongly - i'd rather have k5sooted in the small blind and push if it has been folded round (unlikely I know!) than have jj with 7 lunatics sorry players to act behind me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhornet Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 Re: Low buy in MTT strategy, first few levels Cheers Guys:ok What you are saying GaF is exactly what I was attempting (badly:tongue2) to say. I only have the time to play a few MTT's per week, and as such it appears that my cold streaks, when they happen, are actually lengthier than they are. Woodie: I have taken your advice, and am currently in a 180 man SNG on Stars. I've played them (and won one) before but not for a bit. I have played sooooooo tight (13% seeing the flop) but have made the second break. I haven't played this tight in ages. :unsure:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodie Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Re: Low buy in MTT strategy, first few levels If you want a guide on how to crush them 180 games read the link below I was doing ok in them then read this guide and no lie played one same afternoon and won it ever since I've been having great results in them when I put the tim into them check it out it will help 1000% written by shaun deeb who is like the best online mtt http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/23/mtt-strategy/shauns-beginners-guide-180s-827/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhornet Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 Re: Low buy in MTT strategy, first few levels If you want a guide on how to crush them 180 games read the link below I was doing ok in them then read this guide and no lie played one same afternoon and won it ever since I've been having great results in them when I put the tim into them check it out it will help 1000% written by shaun deeb who is like the best online mtt http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/23/mtt-strategy/shauns-beginners-guide-180s-827/ Cheers mate, will have a gander:ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhornet Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 Re: Low buy in MTT strategy, first few levels Well, playing relatively tight seemed to work. Finished 11th and only felt that I made one mistake in the whole tournament (raised with AQ, then called an all-in for too big a %age of my chips). Very pleased with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sugleh Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Re: Low buy in MTT strategy, first few levels Just a couple of points I've been implementing during early levels myself. Don't overplay hands like AK, AQ and AJ. Raise if first in. Call raise with AK - depends with AQ and AJ. Set mine with most pocket pairs during at least first 2 levels. Don't go broke during early levels with less than a set... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanfaz Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Re: Low buy in MTT strategy, first few levels low buy in tournaments are low quality - its a low buy in! You just have to minimise your luck and keep chipping away at the small pots. And don't bluff early on - play supertight as they won't let you outplay them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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