BAM Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions check - why do anything else oop with an overcard, play small ball in DS tourneys:ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions check - why do anything else oop with an overcard' date=' play small ball in DS tourneys:ok[/quote'] I cbet far too often and am trying to cut back on my cbet frequency :loon So I'm interested in knowing more how you'd see this panning out :ok In general, if I have the betting lead and check to my opponent, then he'll pounce on my weakness and bet with hands I'm beating - I'm saying to him that I missed the flop and he's saying to me he wants to take it away from me because I missed the flop - so I check, and he bets - what do I do? Just call? Is the plan to check/call all the way to the river? Or just the first bullet and to check/fold after that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muttley Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions I cbet far too often and am trying to cut back on my cbet frequency :loon So I'm interested in knowing more how you'd see this panning out :ok I still say that the continuation bet should be the standard play in situations like this one. Change your tack occasionally, by all means, but c-bets are usually correct even when your opponent knows what you're doing. I like to put in a c-bet type raise when I flop trips. That usually stops them being too clever! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions I probably c-bet (is that what the kids are calling it these days? ;)) less than most. I think it's ridiculous to c-bet 95/100% of the time like many weak players do. Although at times I think I need to c-bet more often, it is a part of my game I'm currently looking at. In this scenario however, I'm happy to do so with that flop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions I cbet far too often and am trying to cut back on my cbet frequency :loon So I'm interested in knowing more how you'd see this panning out :ok In general, if I have the betting lead and check to my opponent, then he'll pounce on my weakness and bet with hands I'm beating - I'm saying to him that I missed the flop and he's saying to me he wants to take it away from me because I missed the flop - so I check, and he bets - what do I do? Just call? Is the plan to check/call all the way to the river? Or just the first bullet and to check/fold after that? Its all about pot control and a cbet oop is not only a weak move but exploitable, you only do the cbet in this instance if you are prepared to shove if he raises, if you cannot do that then a check is the only option. Aggression is not always about betting and raising sometimes you can be more agressive with a check call or check raise. Every hand is difficult to play oop (even AA) but QQ to a K high board smells. Hands are situational and history based, so there is no telling what I would have done in samba's shoes but I would have prefer the check expecting him to cbet in position, then a raise would have done three things:- * He folds you win :) * He calls and you as the aggressor gain the iniative in the hand and some control over the pot. A check on the turn may get you a free river. * He 3 bets you have all the info you need and you get away with chips and the most important thing 'your tourney life'. I don't think I would have check/called but it does still have possibilities but a little passive in this particular situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dik9 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions Its all about pot control and a cbet oop is not only a weak move but exploitable, you only do the cbet in this instance if you are prepared to shove if he raises, if you cannot do that then a check is the only option. Aggression is not always about betting and raising sometimes you can be more agressive with a check call or check raise. Every hand is difficult to play oop (even AA) but QQ to a K high board smells. Hands are situational and history based, so there is no telling what I would have done in samba's shoes but I would have prefer the check expecting him to cbet in position, then a raise would have done three things:- * He folds you win :) * He calls and you as the aggressor gain the iniative in the hand and some control over the pot. A check on the turn may get you a free river. * He 3 bets you have all the info you need and you get away with chips and the most important thing 'your tourney life'. I don't think I would have check/called but it does still have possibilities but a little passive in this particular situation. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions Cheers guys :ok Still got some questions though :tongue2 You check, he raises 6k - how much do you 3bet? You started with 29k, put in 4k pre flop so have 25k left - he bets 6k - the min reraise (which I presume you dont advocate here) would cost you 12k of the 25k you have left - lets say you reraise to 16k - that leaves you with 9k (pot 42k) - are you not completely and utterly commited at that stage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions Cheers guys, all interesting. I second GaF's latest Q about how much to put in if check-raising :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions Cheers guys :ok Still got some questions though :tongue2 You check, he raises 6k - how much do you 3bet? You started with 29k, put in 4k pre flop so have 25k left - he bets 6k - the min reraise (which I presume you dont advocate here) would cost you 12k of the 25k you have left - lets say you reraise to 16k - that leaves you with 9k (pot 42k) - are you not completely and utterly commited at that stage? I hate that word pot committed - its like saying I may as well donate the rest then :tongue2 Again its situational but assuming he put in 6K, I wouldn't mind the min raise as it is a powerful move in this situation but I usually stick in slightly more so maybe 13.5K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muttley Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions Ok........Noob question... You check the flop and your opponent bets $6,000. What next? Do you reraise and represent A,K? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubermonkey1 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions c betting a lot is okay as long as you cbet a big hand as well i think:ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhornet Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions c betting a lot is okay as long as you cbet a big hand as well i think:ok Good point:ok. So many players will auto c-bet a flop if they've hit or not, but when they really hit the flop hard, they go into trap mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanfaz Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions Your raise pre-flop should be arount $3800-$4000, i like $3850. You don't want to be making huge raises because your putting your whole stack in jepoardy. A 4 or 5x BB raise is just ridiculous. If your opponents will fold to a $4500 raise, they will most likely fold to a $4000 raise, therefore you minimise your losses when you are beat. On the flop I'm alternating between a check and a c-bet, but I think in this spot a check is the correct play. You can let a card come off because you're only really scared of an ace here. If he has a pair smaller than you then he has 2outs so a free card is fine. If he has a king, a free card is better for you anyway because it is you who needs to hit. So, if he has a king you don't want to be putting any more money in this pot. If you bet he isn't going to fold a king here, and there isn't really anything else he will call with so you will just take the pot. Also, if you check you may induce a bluff on the turn, and you are controlling the pot size. You can call the turn if he bets and he will probably give up on the river without a hand that beats you. If he checks again, then you should bet and he may call with any pair now because your hand looks more like a bluff. So, raise to $3850 and check behind on the flop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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