Samba_SamPa Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Happy with how I played in the APAT Tourney, didn't feel out of my depth, but this hand is bugging me, and I want to canvas PL judgement on what you would have done in this situation. I will play it out decision by decision to see how you would have proceeded at each stage :ok GAME #1979782951: Texas Hold'em NL Tournament 2009-01-10 22:28:02 Table 247070591 (Tournament: APAT UK Online Poker C'ship Buy-In: $50+$5) Seat 1: oldham00 ($20,520.00 in chips) Seat 2: Germanbloke ($13,032.50 in chips) Seat 3: Rabsie67 ($14,530.00 in chips) Seat 4: Silverback0 ($19,344.00 in chips) Seat 5: SambaSamPa ($29,330.00 in chips) Seat 6: kosh101 ($19,710.00 in chips) Seat 7: vandey90 ($32,935.00 in chips) Seat 8: GoalMachine9 ($19,690.00 in chips) DEALER Seat 9: lubandige ($44,896.00 in chips) Seat 10: DewiJ ($25,513.75 in chips) lubandige: Post SB $750.00 DewiJ: Post BB $1,500.00 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to SambaSamPa [:Qh: :Qd:] oldham00: Fold Germanbloke: Fold Rabsie67: Fold Silverback0: Fold SambaSamPa:... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muttley Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions Raise $4,500...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonzie14 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions 4 x BB raise for me, no reason to try anything fancy :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions You're opening in middle position with a premium pair - I put in a standard 3xBB raise here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhornet Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions 3x BB here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions Raise $3879. Doubt you'll get much disagreement at this stage except minor variations in the size of the raise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieGaz Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions 5k for me :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted January 10, 2009 Author Share Posted January 10, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions yeah, you're right Slap, absolutely. Ok, I will post up the next part to take us up to where opinions may differ :ok GAME #1979782951: Texas Hold'em NL Tournament 2009-01-10 22:28:02 Table 247070591 (Tournament: APAT UK Online Poker C'ship Buy-In: $50+$5) Seat 1: oldham00 ($20,520.00 in chips) Seat 2: Germanbloke ($13,032.50 in chips) Seat 3: Rabsie67 ($14,530.00 in chips) Seat 4: Silverback0 ($19,344.00 in chips) Seat 5: SambaSamPa ($29,330.00 in chips) Seat 6: kosh101 ($19,710.00 in chips) Seat 7: vandey90 ($32,935.00 in chips) Seat 8: GoalMachine9 ($19,690.00 in chips) DEALER Seat 9: lubandige ($44,896.00 in chips) Seat 10: DewiJ ($25,513.75 in chips) lubandige: Post SB $750.00 DewiJ: Post BB $1,500.00 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to SambaSamPa [:Qh: :Qd:] oldham00: Fold Germanbloke: Fold Rabsie67: Fold Silverback0: Fold SambaSamPa: Raise (NF) $4,000.00 kosh101: Fold vandey90: Call $4,000.00 GoalMachine9: Fold lubandige: Fold DewiJ: Fold *** FLOP *** [:6c: :Kh: :9s:] SambaSamPa:..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions With no information on villain here, my standard play is probably a cbet in the region of 6k (representing AK) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions Bet $6500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voiceofjoe Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions What reads have you got on Vandey ? Whats his Call/Raise percentages - ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voiceofjoe Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions What reads have you got on Vandey ? Whats his Call/Raise percentages - ? As GaF/Slap say 2/3 - 3/4 Cbet is appropriate - all other information withstanding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted January 10, 2009 Author Share Posted January 10, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions Info on the Villain - I had PT2 running at the time - was that I had been at the table for 28 hands, and Villain had only VPIP twice, folded once pre-flop after re-raise all in and re-re-raise all in, and folded the other time on the flop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonzie14 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions C-bet 6k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions Pot sized bet I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muttley Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions 5k for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions Hands like QQ are very tricky to play post flop in this stage of a tourn given blinds/stacks. Especially out of position. I'm always more than happy to take the blinds. I'd make it 4500-5000 preflop. Then bet 3/4 pot on flop. Then pray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieGaz Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions Pot sized bet I think 10k? a bit big i think...... pot-committing himself with 2nd pair..... i think a cbet in the region of 5k should give you the answer you require :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodie Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions I'm proberly betting out 3/4 of pot and depending on my reads of this player folding to a re raise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions Bet 4K pr 6K on the flop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions Ok, I bet 6k into the >10k pot. Villain raised to 15k. What now.... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1907zico Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions I am not a pokerace, but playing quite often on freerolls and observing your threads mates. I would fold that since you have the K in the flop which makes the QQ looking not so nice anymore.. :unsure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions Fold,Leaves you with 20K can't see him raising with less than a K so fold. He could be a crazy player raising with 89 but I'd reluctantly fold or if pissed off shove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieGaz Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions Ok, I bet 6k into the >10k pot. Villain raised to 15k. What now.... ? think that gives you ya answer m8 :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions Ok, I bet 6k into the >10k pot. Villain raised to 15k. What now.... ? You pass, you're still in ok shape, forget it and move on. The raise doesn't mean he MUST have a king. Not by any stretch, if he is good or crazy(!) it could be a move. As this leaves him with just 13k I'd say he has something and a move is less likely. It's irrelevant what he has if you like - without reads it's a pass. Such a pain to be forced to play these sort of hands out of position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dik9 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions TBH I would have checked the flop, and reraised if he put in a bet. The decision would now be on him, if hes got it he pushes. Then you can pass and not let it torment you. If he calls he's probably got it too, but you might spike your queen on the turn :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubermonkey1 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions You pass, you're still in ok shape, forget it and move on. The raise doesn't mean he MUST have a king. Not by any stretch, if he is good or crazy(!) it could be a move. As this leaves him with just 13k I'd say he has something and a move is less likely. It's irrelevant what he has if you like - without reads it's a pass. Such a pain to be forced to play these sort of hands out of position. thats the problem with the c bet really,it's sort of saying i don't know where i stand.so it does leave you open to someone making a move but.... TBH I would have checked the flop' date=' and reraised if he put in a bet. The decision would now be on him, if hes got it he pushes. Then you can pass and not let it torment you. If he calls he's probably got it too, but you might spike your queen on the turn :)[/quote'] here your gonna find out if he have the goods or not but have you got enough chips to do it really:unsure if he bets its gonna be 6k ish at least i'd guess so the only raise you have left is all in really ,you only have 19k left. i think i like a pot sized ish bet 10-12k on the flop here:ok at least you can be pretty sure he has you beat if he does go all in, if not he would probably have to fold.you also still have 10k+left if he does push which is still workable. i had a crappy situation with qs as well last night:eyes wont bother putting the hh up as its a simplish problem. blinds are 500/1000 your in the bb with 12000 you have qq mid pos limps he's on 9k . bit worried about this:unsure he's been pretty tag and usually raises into a pot if he plays.with only 9xbb can he afford to play a mediocre hand here. small stack on the button pushes for 5k. he's been a bit loose and i would be calling in a shot but with the other guy in i had a think and could see only two options really fold or push,if i had called it would have been very hard to fold if the mid pos did raise. so as i'm not exactly a big stack myself and i'll need to push soon anyway ,i went all in. of course the mid pos had ks:cry:cry i sort of had an idea he might have something like that but even then it's so hard to get away from:eyes i might stop playing mid high pairs and play rags instead,at least you know where you are:tongue2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhornet Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions I would also fold here Samba for all the reasons stated above Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muttley Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions Easy fold for me, unless I have some reason to think he's making a move. In poker, as in life, if I pay someone for advice then I am usually going to take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 Re: Looking for PL opinions Thanks for the input guys :ok This is the HH in full GAME #1979782951: Texas Hold'em NL Tournament 2009-01-10 22:28:02 Table 247070591 (Tournament: APAT UK Online Poker C'ship Buy-In: $50+$5) Seat 1: oldham00 ($20,520.00 in chips) Seat 2: Germanbloke ($13,032.50 in chips) Seat 3: Rabsie67 ($14,530.00 in chips) Seat 4: Silverback0 ($19,344.00 in chips) Seat 5: SambaSamPa ($29,330.00 in chips) Seat 6: kosh101 ($19,710.00 in chips) Seat 7: vandey90 ($32,935.00 in chips) Seat 8: GoalMachine9 ($19,690.00 in chips) DEALER Seat 9: lubandige ($44,896.00 in chips) Seat 10: DewiJ ($25,513.75 in chips) lubandige: Post SB $750.00 DewiJ: Post BB $1,500.00 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to SambaSamPa [:Qh: :Qd:] oldham00: Fold Germanbloke: Fold Rabsie67: Fold Silverback0: Fold SambaSamPa: Raise (NF) $4,000.00 kosh101: Fold vandey90: Call $4,000.00 GoalMachine9: Fold lubandige: Fold DewiJ: Fold *** FLOP *** [:6c: :Kh: :9s:] SambaSamPa: Bet $6,000.00 vandey90: Raise (NF) $15,000.00 SambaSamPa: Fold *** SUMMARY *** Total pot $31,250.00 Rake $0.00 vandey90: wins $31,250.00 My thought during the hand was that it is a sick flop sitting with QQ, I still have 19k chips, I am still 'in there' with a fighting chance, he might well have a K and if I shove and he calls then I'm out. So I folded. Afterwards though, I thought I could have played it better. Pre-flop fine, standard raise. But post-flop - need I have C-bet? Villain is going to see my C-bet and think "yeah, obvious move, let's put him to the test!" What range of hands would he have flatted with pre-flop? I doubt he would have done it with AA or KK? AK, AQ, AJ or AT maybe? KQs? A pocket pair? So what from his range could I be behind to here? AK, KQ, 66, 99 only. If he was a good player then re-raising my C-bet could have just been a "move" by him to put me to the test. What check-calling the flop? He isn't likely to bet more than the 6k I C-bet with, so that way I get to see another card and have only spent the same amount of chips I did to fold before the turn? Or what about CRAI? Put HIM to the test - he bets 6k and has 22k behind, he's going to need to feel pretty secure about his hand to call a shove? The C-bet just looks like the "obvious" move, and if he is a good player then he is going to think that also, and he could be raising with a worse hand than I am holding. I'm not beating myself up about this btw, I don't think I played it 'badly', just maybe I could have played it better. And I do like to get your opinions on how you would have played it :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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