GaF Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Just been looking over my Stars DoN stats for Aces - I've been dealt them 59 times (in 12,678 hands) but never had the balls to fold them pre flop :sad even though I'm certain there would have been situations where I should have.... So I thought we should have a thread where we can brag about having done the right thing and post hand histories when we fold AA pre flop :) Maybe having a little area of PL where we can get recognition for this will encourage us to fold them, when we know we should, but would normally call/raise anyway.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staffy Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Re: The "I'm good enough to fold Aces Preflop" thread You will never get me posting to the fact I have folded aces preflop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 7, 2009 Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 Re: The "I'm good enough to fold Aces Preflop" thread Are you saying: - You could never do it, even knowing its right? - You could never do it, because you dont believe its ever right? - You could fold them, just never admit it publicly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Re: The "I'm good enough to fold Aces Preflop" thread GaF?, I can fold them all the time in coolers. :ok Can I get recognition if I ever manage to pass up 75o, though?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 7, 2009 Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 Re: The "I'm good enough to fold Aces Preflop" thread :lol @ JJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Re: The "I'm good enough to fold Aces Preflop" thread eagerly awaits WASP's appearance in this thread :lol:lol Did'nt we have this before ? Bri's argument about being dealt AA first hand in the WSOP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 7, 2009 Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 Re: The "I'm good enough to fold Aces Preflop" thread eagerly awaits WASP's appearance in this thread :lol:lol Did'nt we have this before ? Bri's argument about being dealt AA first hand in the WSOP Totally different scenario - there it's negative ev to fold, but you may do it because you're playing out of your bankroll/comfort zone... Here, I want examples where it's positive ev and the correct financial decision to fold..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Re: The "I'm good enough to fold Aces Preflop" thread Totally different scenario - there it's negative ev to fold, but you may do it because you're playing out of your bankroll/comfort zone... Here, I want examples where it's positive ev and the correct financial decision to fold..... yeah yeah yeah, whatever. I'm shoving every time :lol:lol:lol:lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teaulc Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Re: The "I'm good enough to fold Aces Preflop" thread if i am out of position and 3 players have gone all in i am folding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Re: The "I'm good enough to fold Aces Preflop" thread Bubble time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staffy Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Re: The "I'm good enough to fold Aces Preflop" thread Are you saying: - You could never do it, even knowing its right? - You could never do it, because you dont believe its ever right? - You could fold them, just never admit it publicly? I would probably go for B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Re: The "I'm good enough to fold Aces Preflop" thread I've never folded em but if a situation arose say on the bubble of satelite and I had a decent stack I could, but I've never been in that situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Re: The "I'm good enough to fold Aces Preflop" thread I've never folded em but if a situation arose say on the bubble of satelite and I had a decent stack I could' date=' but I've never been in that situation.[/quote'] Same here, look at last years Everest promo.No difference in prize scale - just a bubble cut off. Unless I'm waaayyyyyyyyyy out in front with chips I'm folding them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppie Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Re: The "I'm good enough to fold Aces Preflop" thread Often fold them especialy with hands like A,A,10,6 rainbow.Didn't even know you played omaha Gaf:tongue2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Re: The "I'm good enough to fold Aces Preflop" thread Aye didn't think of that Guppie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glceud Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Re: The "I'm good enough to fold Aces Preflop" thread Just been looking over my Stars DoN stats for Aces - I've been dealt them 59 times (in 12' date='678 hands) [/quote'] Thats interesting, you've only had them a couple more times than statisicly probable:eek-You werent playing during an audit week were you? I folded them twice today preflop at Blue Square but thats a problem with being a freeroll sit out:eyes Easy fold with the right stack sizes involved in a satt near bubble time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glceud Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Re: The "I'm good enough to fold Aces Preflop" thread Same here' date=' look at last years Everest promo.No difference in prize scale - just a bubble cut off. Unless I'm waaayyyyyyyyyy out in front with chips I'm folding them[/quote'] Folding them if your way behind, dont think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Re: The "I'm good enough to fold Aces Preflop" thread It's all ICM isn't it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieGaz Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Re: The "I'm good enough to fold Aces Preflop" thread if i am out of position and 3 players have gone all in i am folding :unsure..... that isn't one of the scenario's I was thinking of! monster pot and you're 100% sure you've got the best hand going in..... deffo no fold for me! I've never folded aces pre-flop and don't think I ever will because I never play coolers and rarely play satellite's! :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wurzel133 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Re: The "I'm good enough to fold Aces Preflop" thread i Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivrd Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Re: The "I'm good enough to fold Aces Preflop" thread I can put my hand up and say that i have folded Aces preflop - :sad Just ask washy and hes hyper sensitive laptop that i done it on :$ :rollin:rollin followed by pocket kings later on in the night :lol:lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 Re: The "I'm good enough to fold Aces Preflop" thread Ok - is there anyone who wouldnt fold aces in the following (extreme) hypothetical hand? If we can all agree that we fold aces here, then it's accepted that aces should sometimes be folded pre flop and it's just a question of degree.... It's not a satellite, but very similar - it's a Double or Nothing where top 5 players all receive the same prize - we're on the bubble.... UTG has 26 chips UTG+1 has 1000 chips UTG+2 has 1000 chips Cut Off has 1000 chips Button has 1000 chips SB has 6974 chips BB (Hero) has 4000 chips All players post 25 ante SB posts 125 SB BB(Hero) posts 250 BB Dealt to BB(Hero) :As: :Ad: UTG folds (leaving 1 chip in his stack) Next 4 players fold SB goes all in for 6974 chips BB(Hero) ???? Call or fold? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wurzel133 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Re: The "I'm good enough to fold Aces Preflop" thread to make the money auto fold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 Re: The "I'm good enough to fold Aces Preflop" thread I didn't really intend to get into a discussion in this thread on whether you should ever fold aces pre flop - however as there seem a number who feel "I could never fold aces pre flop" I think we should "go there" - then we can convert the thread into one for posting HH's when you do fold aces pre flop ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Re: The "I'm good enough to fold Aces Preflop" thread Here's one where I didn't fold Aces preflop, despite it being clearly the correct thing to do. PokerStars Game #23081175093: Tournament #128236592, $10.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2008/12/20 1:39:05 ET Table '128236592 1' 10-max Seat #1 is the button Seat 1: heyra4 (2910 in chips) Seat 3: Twisted Lack (1930 in chips) Seat 4: buckklr (1680 in chips) Seat 6: hierhasen (4440 in chips) Seat 7: Cuse2010 (1420 in chips) Seat 8: asjohnstone (1520 in chips) Seat 9: spizzo2386 (1100 in chips) heyra4: posts the ante 5 Twisted Lack: posts the ante 5 buckklr: posts the ante 5 hierhasen: posts the ante 5 Cuse2010: posts the ante 5 asjohnstone: posts the ante 5 spizzo2386: posts the ante 5 Twisted Lack: posts small blind 25 buckklr: posts big blind 50 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to asjohnstone [Ac Ah] hierhasen: calls 50 Cuse2010: folds asjohnstone: calls 50 spizzo2386: calls 50 heyra4: folds Twisted Lack: calls 25 buckklr: raises 1625 to 1675 and is all-in hierhasen: raises 2760 to 4435 and is all-in asjohnstone: calls 1465 and is all-in spizzo2386: folds Twisted Lack: folds Uncalled bet (2760) returned to hierhasen *** FLOP *** [Ts Td 5c] *** TURN *** [Ts Td 5c] [3h] *** RIVER *** [Ts Td 5c 3h] [Kc] *** SHOW DOWN *** buckklr: shows [Qh Qc] (two pair, Queens and Tens) hierhasen: shows [Kh Ks] (a full house, Kings full of Tens) hierhasen collected 320 from side pot asjohnstone: shows [Ac Ah] (two pair, Aces and Tens) hierhasen collected 4680 from main pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 5000 Main pot 4680. Side pot 320. | Rake 0 Board [Ts Td 5c 3h Kc] Seat 1: heyra4 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: Twisted Lack (small blind) folded before Flop Seat 4: buckklr (big blind) showed [Qh Qc] and lost with two pair, Queens and Tens Seat 6: hierhasen showed [Kh Ks] and won (5000) with a full house, Kings full of Tens Seat 7: Cuse2010 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 8: asjohnstone showed [Ac Ah] and lost with two pair, Aces and Tens Seat 9: spizzo2386 folded before Flop Looked at the with GaF before If we know the exact cards that the villains have..... If you fold.....QQ will win 18.065% of the time, and KK will win 81.935% of the time, your expectation is therefore.... (78.872% x 81.935%) + (62.571% x 18.065%) = 75.9% If you call, you win 67.088% of the time. So your expectation is: (67.088% x 81.935% x 97.258%) + (67.088% x 18.065% x 96.203%) = 65.1% If you fold, you have 76% equity, if you call then you have 65% equity - I'm surprised (and was totally wrong) that this is a massive massive massive fold...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyXS Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Re: The "I'm good enough to fold Aces Preflop" thread Yes I've folded AA before but only at the start of MTT events, when everyone is falling overthemselves to go all in in the larger events. But excluding that I honestly for the life of my can't think why anybody would fold AA preflop :unsure Unless I was winning by something silly and could afford to fold all day until I managed a flush with high kicker, then no way would I fold a AA. If I found out someone had folded AA preflop I for one would be all over them like a rash looking for there next mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodie Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Re: The "I'm good enough to fold Aces Preflop" thread I don't understand why anyone would fold aa pre? the only way is in that examply you posted gaf with small stack and big stack going at it in a cooler. Maybe fold in a 5 way pot all in re flop but still the gambler inside me would say call. I couldn't fold it in a sat on the bubble if I'm small stack or massive chip leader. Maybe the only ever time I would fold them is if I was playing with my final dollar and there was a couple all ins on the other table on the bubble and I had to cash to be gtd to make the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Re: The "I'm good enough to fold Aces Preflop" thread I didn't really intend to get into a discussion in this thread on whether you should ever fold aces pre flop - however as there seem a number who feel "I could never fold aces pre flop" I think we should "go there" - then we can convert the thread into one for posting HH's when you do fold aces pre flop ;) I think you should have put "cooler" or "double or nothing" in the thread title: it seems to have got a little derailed! :rollin I'm a little surprised you've never folded aces in a double or nothing. I presume you would in the absolutely clearcut cases like the one you constructed (which has seven players left in, by the way :tongue2 ... though I still think it's a clear fold). When we post hands where we folded aces, I think we should also say whether or not we went on to cash. I can only remember one time that I folded aces and then went on to lose, which might indicate that I'm not folding them often enough ... or might indicate that I have a selective memory! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 Re: The "I'm good enough to fold Aces Preflop" thread Yes I've folded AA before but only at the start of MTT events' date=' when everyone is falling overthemselves to go all in in the larger events.[/quote'] I think that certainly has to be an error (but a different situation) - it cannot be positive ev and probably means you're playing beyond your bankroll and are not comfortable at the stakes you are playing (and it's costing you money!) I'm guessing that neither of you play the DoN's and dont really understand the dynamic of it :unsure (though woodie does talk of the very similar sat situations) If you look at AJ's post (4 up) - in that hand, you are making a MASSIVE error if you call pre flop with your aces - he got it wrong (as would I) because there was only 15 seconds or so to make the decision - with the benefit of hindsight though, there seems no doubt that if you wish to play the best (most profitable) poker you can, then you have to fold. Calling with your AA is as clear an error as saying that 2+2=5!! (and if you cannot fold there, it will cost you money) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 Re: The "I'm good enough to fold Aces Preflop" thread I think you should have put "cooler" or "double or nothing" in the thread title: it seems to have got a little derailed! :rollin Yes maybe ;) But it applies to sats too, and if anyone did find a situation elsewhere to fold aces pre flop (probably a mistake :unsure) then I'd be interested to see it :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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