GaF Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Call or fold? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick mick Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Re: Tournament - AKo - reraised - M=8.5ish After my experiences tonight I'd fold AK preflop:rollin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnley Joe Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Re: Tournament - AKo - reraised - M=8.5ish Call he has A 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robilaruk Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Re: Tournament - AKo - reraised - M=8.5ish Call or fold? any other info? TAG/LAG/doing this alot? how far to the money? how are the other players playing? are you comfortable folding and getting your chips back later? do you need to go for a pee/walk/take the dog for a walk etc so you want it over and done with one way or the other? ta Damo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted November 21, 2008 Author Share Posted November 21, 2008 Re: Tournament - AKo - reraised - M=8.5ish It's far enough from the money that that isn't a consideration - my only concern is tournament chips. The stats on screen are Pokeroffice - of 25 hands I've seen, his VPIP is 28%, his PFR is 12% and his aggression is 7. So he's not afraid to be getting involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daftpegasus Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Re: Tournament - AKo - reraised - M=8.5ish He didn't need to put all his chips in the middle, therefore he's probably done it to scare you off, implying he doesn't have a monster. At worst you're up against a pp but your likely to have 2 over cards so you're in a race. Therefore the decision is based on the value of the tournament, your read on the player, the stage of the tournament, etc. You can put forward a case to justify both a call or a fold in this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Intensity Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Re: Tournament - AKo - reraised - M=8.5ish I think the chips stacks are important here - he's got way more than anyone else at the table. Have you seen him accumulate many of these or did he have them when you got there? To me it looks like he's bullying with the stack, widening the range he could have as opposed to someone making the all in with a similar stack to yours. Because of that, I'd call - but then I do like a gamble:tongue2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robilaruk Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Re: Tournament - AKo - reraised - M=8.5ish It's far enough from the money that that isn't a consideration - my only concern is tournament chips. The stats on screen are Pokeroffice - of 25 hands I've seen, his VPIP is 28%, his PFR is 12% and his aggression is 7. So he's not afraid to be getting involved. Call then, I would agree that he is probably bullying and is prepared to gamble to knock you out and pick up a decent stack to add to his own. You might be a very large fav here 70/30, and in much better shape 'later' when you are AI with shite hoping for a fold etc. I hadn't noticed the stats, never used PT/PO et al as I don't play cash and though i understand their limited value in tourney re the ever increasing blinds, I think they do give some indication of how LAAG the villian is. Cheers Damo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Re: Tournament - AKo - reraised - M=8.5ish It's a scared push, he wants a fold. However his chips are already on the table and your aren't. It's that gap concept yet again. You could be well ahead facing AJ or AQ, but you could be behind to a pocket pair. At best you're racing I think. your "m" is still high enough that you don't need to gamble. Strong arguements for either call, but on balance I'm just about folding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted November 22, 2008 Author Share Posted November 22, 2008 Re: Tournament - AKo - reraised - M=8.5ish In the event I wimped out and folded - I think I'd usually have called, but being in the "equity exchange club" I felt the need to be more disciplined and to try harder to make the "right" play and I just couldnt muster the call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubermonkey1 Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Re: Tournament - AKo - reraised - M=8.5ish pretty much insta call for me i think:ok you might donk out but at worst it's a race and you could well be dominating him. you need to double thru soon and this looks as good as it will get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonzie14 Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Re: Tournament - AKo - reraised - M=8.5ish I'd have called as well. Defo looks like a big stack bully to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted November 22, 2008 Author Share Posted November 22, 2008 Re: Tournament - AKo - reraised - M=8.5ish Everyone happy with the 2.5xBB pre flop raise? (into a pot worth 675 with the ante's) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonzie14 Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Re: Tournament - AKo - reraised - M=8.5ish Everyone happy with the 2.5xBB pre flop raise? (into a pot worth 675 with the ante's) Hadn't noticed that :$.....think I might of increased my PFR to about 1250ish, but don't think it woul of stopped bullyboy from shoving, but may of made your next decission easier. Had you given any thought to your reaction to a shove after your PFR? It's something I am trying to get into my game, planning ahead so to speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubermonkey1 Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Re: Tournament - AKo - reraised - M=8.5ish think i might of raised a little more due to the antes. if you get a late caller the blinds might well feel priced in as well ,then you could be looking at a trouble hand.i'd make it 3-4 bb i think:ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted November 22, 2008 Author Share Posted November 22, 2008 Re: Tournament - AKo - reraised - M=8.5ish Not really - I'm wanting to win the blinds and antes without putting any more chips in - no plan B :lol :lol :lol I need to reread Gus Hansens book, but that's the inspiration - once antes kick in then it seems important to keep picking up blinds and antes uncontested with small raises (and get away from it when meeting resistance) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted November 22, 2008 Author Share Posted November 22, 2008 Re: Tournament - AKo - reraised - M=8.5ish If I'm going to raise bigger, and leave myself pot commited and unable to get away from the hand, should I not just shove all in to maximise my fold equity? (and increase the chance that low and mid pocket pairs fold) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubermonkey1 Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Re: Tournament - AKo - reraised - M=8.5ish yeah actually i think your right there:ok was thinking in general but in this situation the all in is probably the better bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonzie14 Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Re: Tournament - AKo - reraised - M=8.5ish Going back to Harrington,your M is below 10, so yeah a push is in order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george2loose Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Re: Tournament - AKo - reraised - M=8.5ish snap call- his stats suggest his range is wide- you're probably racing a good proportion of the time- if you're happy to race for it, call Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heniek31 Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Re: Tournament - AKo - reraised - M=8.5ish Its a call from too. There is no need to bet that big on his side. If he has Qs to As, re raise to 4-5k would do. I will put him on AJ or AQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted November 22, 2008 Author Share Posted November 22, 2008 Re: Tournament - AKo - reraised - M=8.5ish Its a call from too. There is no need to bet that big on his side. If he has Qs to As' date=' re raise to 4-5k would do. I will put him on AJ or AQ.[/quote'] His raise is effeictively to 5825 - I am the biggest stack to act after him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george2loose Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Re: Tournament - AKo - reraised - M=8.5ish disagree with his bet all in or re raise is irrelevant due to your stack size in relation to his Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heniek31 Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Re: Tournament - AKo - reraised - M=8.5ish His raise is effeictively to 5825 - I am the biggest stack to act after him I have just noticed that :(. Still its a weird bet. I will stick with my prediction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Re: Tournament - AKo - reraised - M=8.5ish I think your mistake was altering your style of play just because of the Equity Club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatch Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Re: Tournament - AKo - reraised - M=8.5ish I certainly call here. Im more than happy to race for it and he is just as likely to have AQ here or even possibly KQ thinking you have a small pair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted November 22, 2008 Author Share Posted November 22, 2008 Re: Tournament - AKo - reraised - M=8.5ish ok - what's my thinking on this now? I think I made a mistake in folding - I should have called - indeed I dont think folding should have been that serious a consideration. What about pre flop? I dont really like shoving - the stacks are just that bit too big. Within "metag game" considerations too - I like the 2.5xBB raise - I have been (and would continue) making that raise - including with hands where I couldn't stand a reraise and would have to lay it down. I believe it would be an error to raise 2.5xBB with hands I can get away from, but to shove all in with my stronger hands - even bad players will soon start to notice that!! So I need to sometimes make that raise with hands I'd go all in with (and AK should have been one of those hands). I'm betting 750 to win 675 - even if I always fold to a reraise, this only needs to get through about 60% of the time to be profitable (and it did seem to be) - but if I do it with stronger hands sometimes too and get all the chips in when reraised, then that increases the proifitability of this sized bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulioArca Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Re: Tournament - AKo - reraised - M=8.5ish I personally dont think raising by so little is enough to scare off such a big stack, so in essence you are asking for a call. I would call with ATC if I was him. It looks like the big stack reads this as either weak in which case he is bullying you off the pot, or possibly strong in that you raise so little you definitely want a call. Either way he is not afraid to put his chips in. Your raise could smack of not wanting to pot commit...or a small raise with the intention of folding to a reraise and he sussed this out. I just realised I am rambling now....stuff it ...GAMBLE :hope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george2loose Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Re: Tournament - AKo - reraised - M=8.5ish I like the pre flop raise- out of curiosity do u always 2.5*bb? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted November 22, 2008 Author Share Posted November 22, 2008 Re: Tournament - AKo - reraised - M=8.5ish I like the pre flop raise- out of curiosity do u always 2.5*bb? No - it varies with typical "M"'s at the table. Early when stacks are deep (and I'm offering large implied odds) I'll typically bet more - maybe 4xBB or 5xBB - as implied odds decrease though, then so will my typical pre flop raise. I was a little unsure in this case though whether it was enough (I dont play that many tournaments with antes, so dont know how well players adjust for pot size/odd they're offered with antes). In this specific case though - with the SB and BB being short stacked, even though they're being offered pretty good odds, I dont see them getting involved too light. I also dont see the big stack responding too differently to a 2,5x raise or a 4xraise - if I can get the same answer for 2.5x, there's no need to pay 4x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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