STEP UP S & Gs

[Rivrd]

Right trying to get some focus back into my game so going to have a shot at some sit n go's. These will all be 10 man STTs on Boss My aim is to start of with €10 and start of at the €2. game, i then need to be able to win and be in profit before i can go up to the next level, but have at least 2 x the buy in to the next level. So for instance - start €10 make profit of €8 which would allow me two attempts at the €3 level. If i fail at the €3 level and balance falls back to €10 then i have to step back down to the €2 level. I will keep a record of how things are going Will see how far i can get up the ladder :hope

[Rivrd]

Re: STEP UP S & Gs Ok, i came 3rd in my first game, and then 2nd in my next game, but was cruelly denied the win Balance €16.60 ***** Hand 1310842191 ***** 200.00/400.00 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 07 November 2008 23:27:41 Holdem (Real/Tournament) Seat 1: Unknown (0.00) Seat 2: Unknown (0.00) Seat 3: Unknown (0.00) Seat 4: Unknown (0.00) Seat 5: Pedró (10260.00) Seat 7: shortstk (4740.00) Seat 6: Unknown (0.00) Seat 8: Unknown (0.00) Seat 9: Unknown (0.00) Seat 10: Unknown (0.00) shortstk post SB 200.00 Pedró post BB 400.00 ** Deal ** Pedró [N/A, N/A] shortstk [Ah, 3d] *** Bet Round 1 *** shortstk Raise to 1200.00 Pedró Call 1200.00 *** Flop(Board): *** : [3h, 8c, 3s] *** Bet Round 2 *** Pedró Bet 1200.00 shortstk Call 1200.00 *** Turn(Board): *** : [3h, 8c, 3s, 2s] *** Bet Round 3 *** Pedró All-in 7860.00 shortstk All-in 2340.00 *** River(Board): *** : [3h, 8c, 3s, 2s, 8h] :puke *** Showdown *** : Rake: 0.00 Total Pot: 9480.00 Pedró [8d, Ac] Full house Win: 9480.00 shortstk [Ah, 3d] Full house Win: 0.00

[Rivrd]

Re: STEP UP S & Gs Played my first €3 game and managed to get 3rd place for €6 Balance :- €19.30

[GaF]

Re: STEP UP S & Gs Good luck :ok Your bankroll management sounds awfully light :unsure (though not got my head around it fully) - with an €18 bankroll (less than 6 buy ins at €3) - you can not really afford the €3 tables :unsure Whilst I'm sure it doesnt matter too much at €10 and you dont mind if you go bust - when you get higher it will be more significant if you are playing beyond your bankroll :unsure Very general rule of thumb is to never sit down with more than a twentieth (5%) of your roll.

[Mad Duke]

Re: STEP UP S & Gs Best of luck m8 but must agree with gaf - hell prove us wrong :loon

[Fonzie14]

Re: STEP UP S & Gs This bankroll strategy of having profit of 2 buyins at next level seems a bit ambitious, if I'm reading it right.:unsure In your opening post you say that you are trying to get some focus back into your game... This seems more of a "get rich quick scheme" to me and I would imagine it will become quite frustrating going up & down levels ( as I think you are bound to), rather than a challenge to regain your focus. Just my 2p worth....GL anyway :ok

[GaF]

Re: STEP UP S & Gs Article from Pocket Fives on Bankroll management (by PXF trainer) You can see that they say you are "gambling" with only 20 buy ins - and 65 buy ins are needed to be safe(ish) http://www.pocketfives.com/poker-articles/Basic-Bankroll-Management-2425952

Basic Bankroll Management By Fox | Published Dec 07 2005, 02:53 PM This article is provided by pokerfox.net. If you like what you read we have a lot more just like it inside! With the number of questions on the forums here at pocketfives about bankroll management, I thought some basic information about bankroll management was needed. This is an adaptation of an article from my website at www.pokerfox.net, and it is a good example of the kind of thing we do there. It has occurred to me recently that many people have questions about bankroll management that aren't easily answered with just a simple number or a formula, so this article should give you some ideas about how to think about your bankroll for yourself. Hopefully this information will allow you to come up with a safe and effective bankroll strategy and prevent you from going broke. I'll start with a few numbers for reference. These aren't exact numbers, but they are a good place to start, and for our purposes they will do just fine. Below there are three columns. The numbers in the "Pro" column are for players who derive the majority of their income playing, and would be devastated financially if they lost their bankroll to a bad run of cards. Using these figures will yield a less than 1% chance of going broke over the course of a lifetime of play assuming that you are a solid winning player. The numbers in the "Protected" column are for a bankroll that you are going to attempt to make a serious income from. If your bankroll will be tough to replace if you lose most of it then you should use these numbers as a starting point. The "Unprotected" column is for people who are willing to play a little looser in an attempt to build a bankroll, and for those of you who could easily replace your bankroll if you were to lose it. Keep in mind that using these figures does yield a significant possibility of going broke or having to drop down levels if you get off to a rough start. An average winning player (if there is such a thing) would have a less than 10% chance of going broke if they use the unprotected number and don't remove any money from their bankroll until it is built up to a safer level. If you use the unprotected column as a long term guide, and pull money out any time you get significantly above that number, you will almost certainly go broke at some point.

	PRO	Protected	UnProtected
Hold'em	550 Big Bets	400 Big Bets	200 Big Bets
NL Holdem	45 Buy Ins	25 Buy Ins	15 Buy Ins
SNG	65 Entries	45 Entries	20 Entries
MTT	200 Entries	100 Entries	40 Entries

Now that we have these numbers, I can teach you how to modify them and how to use them. The practical application of these numbers also requires a basic understanding of variance and what kinds of things affect it, so we'll discuss that first. Variance is a term used to describe the ups and downs you experience in a situation where results can differ in the short term, from their average. It's also a nice way to describe a losing session. Hatfield "How'd you do today Fox?" Fox "Lots of variance." Hatfield "How much are you stuck?" Fox "About $600" Lots of things can increase or decrease your variance. If you read my previous bankroll article on limit Hold Em then you have seen some of the factors in the formula I presented. I'll do my best to present them in order of importance. Your win rate is the single biggest factor in determining the variance that directly affects your bankroll. A solid 2BB/100 winner in a limit Hold Em game is not likely to see a downswing of more than 300 big bets very often, and (if he is lucky) may not see one in ten years. If that same player moves up to a tougher game where he is only winning half a big bet per 100 hands, a downswing of 300 BB's could occur every year or two. Hit the books and improve your game, and your variance will decrease as well. Your mental stability will also affect your variance a great deal. That 60 BB downturn will turn into a 200 BB losing streak if it affects your mental state, and a small losing session can turn into a serious beating if you let it put you on tilt instead of getting up from the game. Your playing style will affect your variance as well, though usually in small chunks rather than large ones. A very loose aggressive player who is winning at the same rate as a tight solid player will see more small ups and downs. Using limit Hold Em as an example, the loose aggressive player, no matter how good he is, will see more 50 BB swings than a tight solid player. If loose aggressive gets you a higher win rate then you shouldn't change your style, you simply need a little larger bankroll and the ability to deal with frequent swings. Your opponents playing style can also affect your variance. If your opponents are loose and aggressive, or simply loose and unbluffable, then your variance will rise slightly. This is somewhat offset by the fact that your overly loose opponents will be idiots, and your win rate will be higher in these games. In multi-table tournaments the payout structure and the size of the field will have a huge affect on your variance. The larger the tournament is the less often you will make the top three where the big money is. Lots of misses, and the rare big win, is a perfect recipe for high variance. The numbers in the chart above assume an average field size of 200. In the very large tournament fields, with buy-ins below $30 online your variance will be quite high, though your win rate against the donkeys who populate those tournaments will help offset the huge field size. In a very steep payout structure tournament like the OWNS tournament on UltimateBet the variance is so high that 500 entry fees might not be enough, even for a very good player. For those of you who are unfamiliar with the OWNS, it's a $50 rebuy tournament where the winner takes the whole prize pool, and it is often filled with excellent players. Scary. Keep in mind also that the number in the chart above is assuming regular freeze out tournaments. If the tournament is a rebuy you have to assume at least four times the initial buy-in as a your actual investment. If you play a lot of rebuy tournaments it would be wise to count the number of rebuys and the add-ons for a few tournaments and come up with a good idea what your average investment really is for each tournament. In a ring game the number of players has the opposite effect on variance. Playing shorthanded or heads up can increase your variance greatly because you are forced to play a looser and more aggressive style, and your opponents will usually play a little more reckless style as well. In ten handed games your long-term variance should be significantly lower. Heads up sit and go tournaments are a variance monster all to themselves. Your win rate will have a massive effect on your variance in heads up play, and a player who is only winning 55% of his matches will have huge swings, while a really solid heads up player with a 70% win rate can get away with using numbers about twice the size of the regular SNG numbers in the chart above. The 55% player probably can't have a big enough bankroll no matter what he does; the variance is just too high. That should give you a pretty good idea how high your variance is compared to most players and allow you to come up with a fairly accurate number that takes into account your personal variance, and the level of risk you are willing to take with your bankroll. Now let's take a look at a few ideas for ways to take calculated risks without worrying too much about your bankroll disappearing. A rolling bankroll is my own personal favorite. Pick a number that is when you will move up to the next level - we'll call it your ceiling - and a number at which you will have to move down a level because of a losing streak - we'll call that your floor. When you hit your ceiling you can move up a level, and when you hit your floor you must move down. Failing to move down immediately when you hit your floor is very risky; don't do it. As an example If you a 10/20 player and using 350 big bets ($7,000) as your floor then you might want to play until you have 450 big bets at the next level (15/30) before you move up in case you hit a losing streak right away at your new level. 450 big bets at 15/30 is $13,500 so that would be your ceiling at 10/20. Once you move up levels to 15/30 your new floor would be 350 x $30 or $10,500. Taking a shot at a big payday is nearly impossible to resist on occasion, especially for tournament players. If done judiciously, and in circumstances where your win rate is likely to be very high, this won't increase your variance too terribly. For ring game players I recommend that you never move up more than one level, and that you set yourself a specific number that you can lose at the higher level before you end your little adventure. This number should be less than 10% of your bankroll, and it is not a practice that you should engage in with any frequency. I will occasionally step up a level when I see one of my favorite fish at a table, but otherwise it's just too risky. Losing 5% of my bankroll ruins my day entirely and takes me a week to win back, making the risk worthwhile only if I can expect a much higher than average win rate at the higher table. For tournament players taking a shot can be playing a tournament with an overlay even if is twice your usual buy-in, or playing a few satellites to win your way in to a big tournament. The BoDog 100k guarantee is a good example of a place to take an occasional shot. The weak competition, combined with a large overlay, make this tournament very profitable even if it is a little above your usual comfort level. No matter what your reasons are for taking a shot at a larger tournament, the buy-in should never exceed 5% of your bankroll, and these excursions into deeper water should remain few and far between. Hopefully this article gives you all the tools you need to understand bankroll management. Feel free to email me at [email protected] with any questions or suggestions you may have. I'll see you at the final table, Fox

[Rivrd]

Re: STEP UP S & Gs Yes its very tight, but makes me a little more determined to win or get a placing at each level, and as you stated if i go bust it is only €10 After re-reading what i had put down in post 1, with regards to x 2 the next buy in, i have soon realised that when reacher the higher levels it is going to increasingly difficult to get double the buy in at a higher level, so if i have enough for at least one attempt then i will have a go at it. My aim is just to start from the €2 and then play at each level up wards €3, €5, €10, €15 etc trying to get to as highest level as possible. Mind you if i reach the €200 + then will probably start getting a bit jittery :lol

[Rivrd]

Re: STEP UP S & Gs

This bankroll strategy of having profit of 2 buyins at next level seems a bit ambitious, if I'm reading it right.:unsure In your opening post you say that you are trying to get some focus back into your game... This seems more of a "get rich quick scheme" to me and I would imagine it will become quite frustrating going up & down levels ( as I think you are bound to), rather than a challenge to regain your focus. Just my 2p worth....GL anyway :ok

No thanks for the comments Fonzie, I feel that my concentration is really lacking at the moment plus something missing from my game, and am finding it hard to pin point what i am doing differently. So just hoping this will help me focus a little better of whats going on

[GaF]

Re: STEP UP S & Gs

Yes its very tight' date=' but makes me a little more determined to win or get a placing at each level,[/quote'] Its not a question of determination - determination is not a method by which you can overcome variance (but it is a method by which you can play better) - no matter how well you play though, if you play beyond your bankroll, you have to expect a significant possibility of going bust and having to start again (only reason I'm making such a point of it - dont be too depressed if/when it happens :sad)

[Rivrd]

Re: STEP UP S & Gs Just played my 2d €3 game, teach me for not looking properly as it turned out to be a 3 min turbo :loon, still managed to get 2nd for €9 :nana Balance €25

[Rivrd]

Re: STEP UP S & Gs Played my 1st €5 and busted out 5th, dropped down to play €3 came 2nd for €9 which then enabled me to play another €5 game which i managed to come 2nd for €15 :nana Balance : €34 Will play another €5 game before going up a level :hope

[Rivrd]

Re: STEP UP S & Gs An update is that i wanted to make €40 at least before having a go at a €10 game, but seem to be struggling stringing a couple of games together at €5. Im either finishing 4th for money back or bubbling :( If i play a €3 game i have no problems at all getting in the money. Certainainly a tough challenge i have set myself, but going to stick with it, a couple of wins and it can all change. Current balance : €25

[Rivrd]

Re: STEP UP S & Gs A win in a €5 game, plus a 3rd in a €10, has doubled my balance now. Will now be able to play another €10 Balance €53

[Rivrd]

Re: STEP UP S & Gs Nice little run tonight, finally got past the €5 games, and had enough to play a €10, which i won :nana, then decided to play straight away a €15 which i managed another cash finishing 3rd :). I registered for a €20 but just never filled up tonight :(, so i decided as i had a little breathing space i played another couple of €10 games. Lost the first one :( but won the next one :cow Current Balance €114

[Samba_SamPa]

Re: STEP UP S & Gs Nice one Jase :ok (You should seriously be up to beating the €10-20 level on Boss... if I can, then.... )

[Rivrd]

Re: STEP UP S & Gs 3 games tonight at €10, managed 1 x Loss, a 2nd and a 3rd Current Balance €128 Will try and enter a €20 and just wait for it to fill up :hope

[Rivrd]

Re: STEP UP S & Gs Only managed to play one €20 game tonight which i lost :(, They just seem to take an age to fill up. So registered for another, but got impatient for it to fill up, even the €10 were slow tonight, but managed to sneak one in which was the JACKPOT games, and managed to win it :nana now ive got to play another one :lol Current Balance €141

[Samba_SamPa]

Re: STEP UP S & Gs Imagine your challnge balance if you win the 6 in a row though :lol

[Rivrd]

Re: STEP UP S & Gs Lost a couple of €10 earlier today, but finally managed to get a €20 game which i won :nana this enable to play a €30 game but only managed to finish 4th, so got my money back from that. Wanted to play another €20 game but they just take so long to fill up, but after waiting for 1hr managed to get a game and then this happens in it ***** Hand 1325433969 ***** 25.00/50.00 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 17 November 2008 22:46:20 Pays 4 Places (Real/Tournament) Seat 1: LeHat (1325.00) Seat 2: Dalton222 (1945.00) Seat 3: joeyscarlet (1255.00) Seat 4: pepino41 (1515.00) Seat 5: EricN84 (1185.00) Seat 9: shortstk (1315.00) Seat 6: Unknown (0.00) Seat 7: ZOUZOU1998 (1125.00) Seat 8: ninjabauer (3920.00) Seat 10: Hatman83 (1415.00) EricN84 post SB 25.00 ZOUZOU1998 post BB 50.00 ** Deal ** LeHat [N/A, N/A] Dalton222 [N/A, N/A] joeyscarlet [N/A, N/A] pepino41 [N/A, N/A] EricN84 [N/A, N/A] shortstk [10h, 10s] ZOUZOU1998 [N/A, N/A] ninjabauer [N/A, N/A] Hatman83 [N/A, N/A] *** Bet Round 1 *** ninjabauer Fold shortstk Raise to 250.00 Hatman83 Raise to 550.00 LeHat Fold Dalton222 Fold joeyscarlet Fold pepino41 Fold EricN84 Fold ZOUZOU1998 Fold shortstk Call 550.00 *** Flop(Board): *** : [Qd, 10d, Ad] *** Bet Round 2 *** shortstk All-in 765.00 Hatman83 Call 765.00 *** Turn(Board): *** : [Qd, 10d, Ad, As] *** River(Board): *** : [Qd, 10d, Ad, As, Ah] *** Showdown *** : Rake: 0.00 Total Pot: 2705.00 LeHat Fold Win: 0.00 Dalton222 Fold Win: 0.00 joeyscarlet Fold Win: 0.00 pepino41 Fold Win: 0.00 EricN84 Fold Win: 0.00 shortstk [10h, 10s] Full house Win: 0.00 ZOUZOU1998 Fold Win: 0.00 ninjabauer Fold Win: 0.00 Hatman83 [Ac, Kd] Four of a kind, aces Win: 2705.00 :puke As for the Jackpot game, well i entered one and was still the only one registered after 3hrs :loon so looks like i willhave to wait another day. Current Balance €175

[Rivrd]

Re: STEP UP S & Gs Had lost a couple of buy ins, but then won a €10 to bring me back up again :D Finding it increasingly difficult to get players join a €30 game, just amazes me that across the boss network that they are not getting the players, they are filling up on the coolers but thats about it.:\ Will perciveer and play this level and above. Current Balance €178

[Samba_SamPa]

Re: STEP UP S & Gs perciveer :eek I'm not the spelling and punctuation police, but that made me :lol :ok

[Samba_SamPa]

Re: STEP UP S & Gs As I have mentioned to you before, you should start a 5-man challenge, they fill quite regularly

[Rivrd]

Re: STEP UP S & Gs

perciveer :eek I'm not the spelling and punctuation police, but that made me :lol :ok

I just bloody wait then :rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin

[Rivrd]

Re: STEP UP S & Gs

As I have mentioned to you before' date=' you should start a 5-man challenge, they fill quite regularly[/quote'] :ok These definetely fill up quicker, played a few at €10 managed to place 2nd once but then lost a few :( balance dropped to €78. I wanted to stick at this level to get a better feel for the play and managed to string a couple of placings together. Multitabled a €10 and a €20 today, finished 2nd in the €10, i would of one the €20 but had to leave the game and be blinded away as i had to rush out :sad so another 2nd. Managed to finally get ago at the €30 and managed to win it :nana Balance now upto €238

[Rivrd]

Re: STEP UP S & Gs Well it has been a right up/down last couple of days with my roll dropping down to €120. I have stuck out most of the times the 5 handed games as samba suggested as they are filling up so much quicker then the 10s. Finally after 4 consecutive days registering for my 2nd jackpot game, i finally got to play it tonight......i managed to cash as well but only in 3rd place :eyes all that wait for nothing :lol Went on a bit of a steamer tonight and have now managed to turn that €120 back up to €348 :loon, so am now looking at playing the €40/€50 games.

Username	Games Played	Av. Profit	Av. Stake	Av. ROI	Total Profit	Form	Network	Filter
shortstk	227	$3	$13	22%	$630	Super Hot	IPN		x

Recent Results Show Last 50 Results (1 Search)
GameID	Date (GMT)	Type	EntryFee	Position	Profit
34104841	28-Nov-08 00:42	NL Holdem	€30	1/5	€72
34104593	28-Nov-08 00:05	NL Holdem	€10	2/5	€4
34104234	28-Nov-08 00:02	NL Holdem	€20	1/5	€48
34017626	27-Nov-08 23:49	NL Holdem	€10	3/10	€8
34103830	27-Nov-08 22:59	NL Holdem	€10	1/5	€24
34102783	27-Nov-08 22:38	NL Holdem	€10	1/10	€30
34102835	27-Nov-08 22:05	NL Holdem	€10	5/5	-€11
34091095	27-Nov-08 00:45	NL Holdem	€10	5/5	-€11

[Samba_SamPa]

Re: STEP UP S & Gs :clap keep it going mate