GaF Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 What's your plan of action here? It's a £25 MTT - my HUDs not working and I'm multitabling so I have no information at all on the original raiser. He open raises 7xBB from UTG :loon There were 211 entrants - about 130 left - and top 30 paid - so no considerations beyond maximising ev for tournament chips. What's my play? I went through the whole gammut - considered seriously folding, calling and raising...... Game #8151749134: £2.5K Super series (ID8266457) £25+£2.50 - Hold'em NL (75/150) - 2008/10/26 - 19:11:29 (UK) Table "8266457 - 3" Seat 5 is the button. Seat 1: Anders0n8 (1790 in chips) Seat 2: Telepee (5025 in chips) Seat 3: Kingy1uk (2900 in chips) Seat 4: Barok100 (2465 in chips) Seat 5: Cybergirl (3325 in chips) Seat 6: Sam200112 (3017 in chips) Seat 7: Dodger101 (3715 in chips) Seat 8: Ric160857 (6855 in chips) Seat 9: Bene29061 (16510 in chips) Seat 10: Luckymoh (4341 in chips) Sam200112: posts small blind 75 Dodger101: posts big blind 150 ----- HOLE CARDS ----- dealt to Telepee [:Js: :Jh:] Ric160857: raises to 1050 Bene29061: folds Luckymoh: folds Anders0n8: folds Telepee: ??????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Re: Playing hooks following overbet from UTG raiser? Used to be a shove for me, but a fold nowadays. He's got you covered, and he'd call a shove. Plenty of time to get a better spot than risk it now on :Js: :Jh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodie Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Re: Playing hooks following overbet from UTG raiser? How long are the levels 15 minutes? No way am I calling cause this looks like a blatent go go move. No notes on him so he could well have a bigger pair but at this stage of the tournament I'd gamble and stick them all in and hope he calls with 99 or similar.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted October 26, 2008 Author Share Posted October 26, 2008 Re: Playing hooks following overbet from UTG raiser? Yes - it's a decent structured tourney :ok 2500 starting chips and 15 minute blinds (the whole WH super series is the same structure - even the £2.50 game :ok) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Re: Playing hooks following overbet from UTG raiser? You're facing a big raise, there's still 5 players to act after you pre-flop, you have nearly 35xBBs left - easy fold for me, there'll be much better opportunities unfold during the course of the tourney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Re: Playing hooks following overbet from UTG raiser? insta fold, although in the past I'd have called. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daftpegasus Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Re: Playing hooks following overbet from UTG raiser? I'd probably fold but I can see an arguement for the raise (less so for the call). You need to accumulate chips at some point and also take a few risks. Pre flop only 3 hands are beating you justifying the raise. Really you should limit your multi tabling so you can get a read on some of your opponents:tongue2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Re: Playing hooks following overbet from UTG raiser? Looks like an AK raise to me so I would call and see a flop and see how he reacts or I may shove allin depending what mood I'm in lol. Never folding JJ here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted October 26, 2008 Author Share Posted October 26, 2008 Re: Playing hooks following overbet from UTG raiser? Looks like an AK raise to me so I would call and see a flop and see how he reacts or I may shove allin depending what mood I'm in lol. Never folding JJ here. That was kinda my thinking in the end - I didn't think it was as strong as AA or KK - the bet was too big (though I think good players can overbet there with big hands) - so I was thinking a big ace or a mid pair - but I decided it was probably a scared bet that just wanted to take it down unopposed. I didn't see him going away though, and I didnt really want to be called by AK ...so I flat called with a view to getting it in light if the flop dodged an ace. Cant find the hand history now :$ Basically I flat called and the flop was 3 low cards (6 or 7 high IIRC). He bet into me - same size bet in chips - 1k. It's the flop I wanted - and the cbet I expected - so I wont ask "what now" - I shoved all in and he folded :) Although it worked in that instance, I'm far from convinced it was good play :unsure I've just this second gone out of the tourney in 21st place for £38.88 - a bit disappointed with that (was shooting for first - worth £2177 :loon) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted October 26, 2008 Author Share Posted October 26, 2008 Re: Playing hooks following overbet from UTG raiser? Ah - here's the full hand history (one of my "key hands") Game #8151749134: £2.5K Super series (ID8266457) £25+£2.50 - Hold'em NL (75/150) - 2008/10/26 - 19:11:29 (UK) Table "8266457 - 3" Seat 5 is the button. Seat 1: Anders0n8 (1790 in chips) Seat 2: Telepee (5025 in chips) Seat 3: Kingy1uk (2900 in chips) Seat 4: Barok100 (2465 in chips) Seat 5: Cybergirl (3325 in chips) Seat 6: Sam200112 (3017 in chips) Seat 7: Dodger101 (3715 in chips) Seat 8: Ric160857 (6855 in chips) Seat 9: Bene29061 (16510 in chips) Seat 10: Luckymoh (4341 in chips) Sam200112: posts small blind 75 Dodger101: posts big blind 150 ----- HOLE CARDS ----- dealt to Telepee [:Js: :Jh:] Ric160857: raises to 1050 Bene29061: folds Luckymoh: folds Anders0n8: folds Telepee: calls 1050 Kingy1uk: folds Barok100: folds Cybergirl: folds Sam200112: folds Dodger101: folds ----- FLOP ----- [:5s: :4h: :3c:] Ric160857: bets 1050 Telepee: raises to 3975 and is all-in Ric160857: folds Returned uncalled bets 2,925 to Telepee Telepee: doesn't show hand Telepee collected 4425 from Main pot ----- SUMMARY ----- Total pot 4425 Main pot 4425 Rake 0 Board [5s 4h 3c] Seat 1: Anders0n8 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 2: Telepee collected 4425 Seat 3: Kingy1uk folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: Barok100 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 5: Cybergirl (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 6: Sam200112 (small blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 7: Dodger101 (big blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 8: Ric160857 folded on the Flop Seat 9: Bene29061 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 10: Luckymoh folded before Flop (didn't bet) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Re: Playing hooks following overbet from UTG raiser? Glad it worked, but I still wouldn't have committed 21% of my chips to HOPE there were no over cards on the flop. 12 overcards, and 24.5% chance of one of them arriving on the flop, so you weren't getting the right odds to make the call - imo. Unless you had a plan as to what you would do if an overcard DID come? It only sounds like your plan was for if one DIDN'T come? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted October 26, 2008 Author Share Posted October 26, 2008 Re: Playing hooks following overbet from UTG raiser? If an Ace came on the flop I was likely to fold to his cbet. A king or a queen and I'm not sure - I would have thought about it. Anything else and I was prepared to put them all in the middle. If he had two overcards to my jacks, then there were only 10 overcards that could come down on the flop - small, but important difference :) I confess I called too partly out of indecission and a fast ticking clock!! I felt folding to an open raise was too weak with JJ, and I didn't want to put them all in the middle with only JJ!! So I was genuinely stumped!! One other consideration (and yes I did consider this during my 15 seconds :loon) was the "key point" from the article in this months Inside Poker Mag (Issue 58 Page 58) by Aaron Hendrix - "In the middle stages of a tournament try to avoid taking obvious 50/50 shots and dont be afraid to keep the pot small by calling and seeing a flop" - this probably gave me the confidence to even consider a flat call, which, for anyone who knows the way I play, is an extremely unusual play for me in a situation like this!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Re: Playing hooks following overbet from UTG raiser? If he had two overcards to my jacks, then there were only 10 overcards that could come down on the flop - small, but important difference :) I considered that, but then how do you quantify how to arrive at the odds. Do you say well he has an overcard in his 2, so we'll call it 11 overcards from 49, or say well he has 2 overcards and so it is 10 from 48? I would always go by what "I know" - in that there's 50 other cards to my 2 out there, and 12 of them are higher than my Jacks Whether that is right or not.... :unsure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Re: Playing hooks following overbet from UTG raiser? P.S. I haven't got up to page 58 yet - still on pages 20/21 ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Re: Playing hooks following overbet from UTG raiser? The way in which you play and think through hands in tournaments Gaf is extremely similar to the way in which I play. I would say that your style is more similar to mine than any other PL'er. I guess I'd better pull my bloody socks up then;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELCAKER Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 Re: Playing hooks following overbet from UTG raiser? i like the way you have played it. No way he has a-a,k-k or even q-q here. A-k or maybe a-q looks the most likely. By smooth calling you still give yourself the chance to get away from it, if it comes scary. I might have been inclined to have smooth call his bet on the flop as well - if he has missed the flop, and I would think he has, then there's the opportunity to extract more money from him. This might appear risky but I like to take the view that if our poker playing careers are just one long game, when you have to take the rough with the smooth, then you have to try and maximise your returns when the odds are in your favour. There's every chance he pushes all in when you flat call the flop and this now allows you to double up if he misses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hedonist Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Re: Playing hooks following overbet from UTG raiser? I'm a bit late getting to this... I'm not convinced its a shove or fold decision this early in the tournie. But I'd deffo be looking to come over the top of him, maybe reraise to 2-2.5k. In doing so I'm telling those who act after me that I have a serious hand and I'm putting pressure back on my opponent. If he reraises, I'm calling and crossing my fingers, but at the moment his play just seems a bit too strong. Why raise 7xBB from UTG with AA/KK/QQ? Especially when you're the 2nd big stack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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