GaF Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 First off a disclaimer!! This may appear to some that this is a bad beat thread because I lost with the better starting hand - it's not!! When I put the money in, I was behind - it was bad play, not a bad beat!! A €5 cooler - how would you have played this? We're on the bubble - I have a few chips, 4th place I think, but not comfortable. We have one short stack. I get AKs on the button (short stack is on the BB). UTG calls, next player min raises. I read this as "lets all call and check it down to the short stack", I have a strong enough hand, but dont raise to isolate as I usually would - I'm happy to call and check it down. However plan scuppered when short stack folds!! 3 of us see the flop which is nice for me - KJ8 rainbow. 2nd to act min raises!!!!! I reraise all in, but am beat - he already has two pair. I'm confident I played it badly/wrong, but not sure at what point I should have got out.... 1) Should I just have reraised all in pre flop? 2) Should I have just folded pre flop and left others to fight it out? 3) Should I have folded to the min raise post flop? I think it's a really tricky situation and I dont know what I should have done!! ***** Hand 1283537717 ***** 150.00/300.00 Texas Hold'em (No Limit ) - 18 October 2008 23:30:20 Cooler (Real /Tournament ) Seat 1: pl---GaF (2145.00) Seat 2: sanaga (3445.00) Seat 5: Eukay (1070.00) Seat 6: printex76 (4145.00) Seat 7: LESOASK (1875.00) Seat 9: topseed77 (2320.00) sanaga post SB 150.00 Eukay post BB 300.00 ** Deal ** pl---GaF [As, Ks] sanaga [N/A, N/A] Eukay [N/A, N/A] printex76 [N/A, N/A] LESOASK [N/A, N/A] topseed77 [N/A, N/A] *** Bet Round 1 *** printex76 Call 300.00 LESOASK Raise to 600.00 topseed77 Fold pl---GaF Call 600.00 sanaga Fold Eukay Fold printex76 Call 600.00 *** Flop(Board): *** : [Kh, 8c, Jd] *** Bet Round 2 *** printex76 Check LESOASK Bet 300.00 pl---GaF All-in 1545.00 printex76 Call 1545.00 LESOASK Fold *** Turn(Board): *** : [Kh, 8c, Jd, Jc] *** River(Board): *** : [Kh, 8c, Jd, Jc, 5s] *** Showdown *** : Rake: 0.00 Total Pot: 5640.00 pl---GaF [As, Ks] Two pair kings and jacks Win: 0.00 sanaga Fold Win: 0.00 Eukay Fold Win: 0.00 printex76 [Jh, Kd] Full house Win: 5640.00 LESOASK Fold Win: 0.00 topseed77 Fold Win: 0.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieGaz Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Re: Bubble: €5 Cooler - where should I have got out? I think if you re-raise all in pre and everyone folds then you're almost certain to cash in this..... so that's what I would have elected to do! :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted October 18, 2008 Author Share Posted October 18, 2008 Re: Bubble: €5 Cooler - where should I have got out? I think if you re-raise all in pre and everyone folds then you're almost certain to cash in this..... so that's what I would have elected to do! :ok There's a good chance short stack calls with almost any 2 though, especially if I've reraised and there's dead money in the pot - if he has 2 live cards, then he's a good chance (40%?) of beating AK and then I'm left the short stack and most likely to bubble :unsure We know the original raiser had KJ and would have folded that, but what if he had a pocket pair and called? Then I'm behind...... I'm starting to think I should have just folded what was only Ace high and let others fight it out :unsure There was just no need to get involved... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robilaruk Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Re: Bubble: €5 Cooler - where should I have got out? A €5 cooler - how would you have played this? We're on the bubble - I have a few chips, 4th place I think, but not comfortable. I've not played any coolers so am not positive what the strategy is, but this looks like an easy fold to me. 1) someone else has already called and is therefore likely to call the min raise if its folded to them as they have money in the pot. So you can't call and face at least 2 people with AK. 2) Min raise at this stage in the game is either a very obvious I have AA/KK and want a call, or a very poor I am pretending to have AA/KK and am trying to steal. Either way you don't know how you hand is if you only call and see the flop 3) Shortie in the BB might still shove if you call the m/r and then you are facing 2/3/4 players with a weak looking AK if you call the shove 4) shoving is not a good play IMO because shortie might take the chance to call with ATC hoping the others fold,and/or either 1st limper or the min raiser might call and you don't want to be playing AK against a min raiser who might have AA/KK. 5) This type of game is about survival and being aggressive first, if it had gone limp/limp, then shoving is a better play as both players now have less invested, but I don't think that shoving over a limp and m/r will work. Am sure that with TAG patient play coolers can make money in the long run? Anyone playing these a lot care to comment? Nice question GaF :ok Damo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieGaz Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Re: Bubble: €5 Cooler - where should I have got out? looking back at the HH I didn't realise that the short stack was in the BB..... in that case I understand what you're saying.... however... I would find it hard to fold AK here but one thing is for sure.... I deffo wouldn't have flat called(although I can see the reasoning behind this).... I really think I'm shoving here and if I'm 60%fav then I'm happy. (BTW..... I am sooo bad at these cooler games, I just don't have the patience for them and maybe this is why?! :unsure) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daftpegasus Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Re: Bubble: €5 Cooler - where should I have got out? You have to remember these games are all about survival. Put yourself in the position of the short stack. The big chip leader is in the pot. The second lowest chip stack has min raised, and now you, the third lowest chip stack has called. The chip leader is going to call the raise. Add to that the fact that he's on the BB and therefore will not be subject to the blinds for a few hands means that for him it's an automatic fold in this position unless he has a monster. With LESOASK putting in 600 chips pre flop he effectively becomes the short stack because the blinds will come to him first. With you following suit, one of you will lose the chips. Obviously he hopes that the chip leader wins the pot and he has survived. Now look at it from your point of view. The short stack has too many chips for you all to call and check it down. If he shoves pre flop, the chip leader and second short stack both call, what are you doing with your AKs? You should look at the fact that the chip leader is in the pot. The second chip stack has put a third of his chips in too and the short stack is probably going to call or shove. Therefore forget your cards and survive. What ever the outcome one of the 2 shorter stacks than you is going to lose a chunk of their chips. You need to get their chip stacks much lower than they are currently before calling and checking it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Re: Bubble: €5 Cooler - where should I have got out? With two players, including the chip leader, already having voluntarily put money in the pot, I think it's a clear fold preflop. If printex76 had folded and you were just facing a min raise from LESOASK, then I think shoving would be reasonable, especially if LESOASK had been making a lot of small raises. I don't like calling pre-flop with AK in general in coolers with a mediumish stack. Most of the time I hit the flop I won't have a monster, just TPTK, and I'll probably have at most five outs if I am behind. Actually, I don't like calling pre-flop with any hand in coolers with a mediumish stack ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heniek31 Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Re: Bubble: €5 Cooler - where should I have got out? I played quiet few coolers with good results and this is 100% all in pre flop. Its obvious, that you are not going to fold this hand (the only other solution). If you push all in, I doubt printex will call. He knows you have the better hand and can take LES out. No need for him to get involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daftpegasus Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Re: Bubble: €5 Cooler - where should I have got out? I played quiet few coolers with good results and this is 100% all in pre flop. Its obvious' date=' that you are not going to fold this hand (the only other solution). If you push all in, I doubt printex will call. He knows you have the better hand and can take LES out. No need for him to get involved.[/quote'] Whilst the shove All In is a better play than the call, I disagree that it's what you should do in this situation. LES has put in about a third of his chips with a minimum raise against the chip leader. That stinks of a good/great hand. If you shove, end heads up against LES and he wins then you have less than 300 chips left. The best play is to fold and let the chip leader go up against at least one (and hopefully both) of the shorter stacks. Survive and make the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heniek31 Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Re: Bubble: €5 Cooler - where should I have got out? Good reasoning, but I want to be HU with LES :ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Re: Bubble: €5 Cooler - where should I have got out? I'm in the 'muck them straight away' camp here. I would be tossing AA here too. The advantage of winning this hand (a bigger chip stack) is outweighed by the disadvantage (Out of tourney) of losing the hand. As such I would be folding AA here also - the hand is matterless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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