slapdash Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 As documented in another thread, I've been playing quite a lot of "Coolers" on Boss recently (10 player STTs where the top 5 double their buy-in, minus rake, and the other 5 lose). There's quite a lot of low-level "cheating" in these. It seemed to die down for a while, but has recently restarted. For example, if it's down to the last six and the short stack is all-in or almost all-in, players will urge others to call. I actually don't think that this matters too much, as I don't think it's going to influence anybody very often, but it's irritating. More significantly, players will go all-in and say what they have (usually big PP or AK). This does matter, as if it deters another player from calling, then that seriously disadvantages the other players. Usually, if you get to find out, they're telling the truth, though a few players will show a bluff when everybody folds, which just seems stupid. Also, sometimes players say what they have before it's their turn to act, presumably to try to stop other players from betting. I'm not really sure how to deal with this. I've never said anything, because in this form of poker you don't want to make enemies: in the later stages you're frequently going all-in to steal the blinds, and you don't want a larger stack to call you out of spite. I suppose I ought to complain to Boss, but I don't really have any confidence that they'd do anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Re: Cheating in Coolers More significantly, players will go all-in and say what they have (usually big PP or AK). This does matter, as if it deters another player from calling, then that seriously disadvantages the other players. Usually, if you get to find out, they're telling the truth, though a few players will show a bluff when everybody folds, which just seems stupid. Is that cheating as such ? Poker is a game of psychology after all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idontfeardeath Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Re: Cheating in Coolers I just played my first one of these on Pacific Poker - Didnt have any problems, although when in the top 5 i expected the game to just finish, got confused at first about whether needed to finish game or not. The only thing they can really do would be to stop the chat facility? Obviously everyone is going to play to get in to the last 5 as oppose to just try and be chip leader all the way through but if they disable the chat feature it would make helping eachother out impossible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted September 8, 2008 Author Share Posted September 8, 2008 Re: Cheating in Coolers Is that cheating as such ? Poker is a game of psychology after all I don't have any particularly strong feelings about whether or not it should be against the rules, but it clearly is on Boss: No "board talk" is allowed. Players may not chat about a hand while it is in progress. Although some comments may be innocuous, the presumption will be that any comments about the play of a hand are in violation of our rules, and the burden of proof will be on the violating player to convince us otherwise. To be safe, avoid making jokes about the hand you are holding or how you intend to play during a hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starshine Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Re: Cheating in Coolers I play lots of coolers as well and I agree with slapdash. It irritates me as well, when it comes to the situation where some urge others to call. I sometimes said something, but that gives just bit aggressive reactions. So I stopped saying something and just do my game. Means when I have a hand to call I do, nothing to do with to kick the shortest out, and when I have not than I not call. But a couple of times when I not called others on table gave me very rude reaction, that I am stupid (and that is more one of the polite things they said). And I got told that every should call so the poss to kick the small out is more. Yes I know that, just seems not right to me. But I don't think it will be of help to complain to Boss. So I think the best thing is that in case someone tells what he/she has, is really to tell him/her off in a very polite way of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiant23 Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Re: Cheating in Coolers I've long since given up on the BM customer support but I guess it is cheating. I've played a lot of these too and although I've come across a lot of bad play I've never seen any cheating like this. And as regards being urged to call an all in - I've seen it and laughed when an ultra short stack has been the one who has said it mainly because it would have the reverse effect on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpe1ne Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Re: Cheating in Coolers I play these most of the time now and it does irritate me when people say go all-in.I know what i'm doing and if im well covered with chips im always going to call the short stack with any 2 cards. Though the funniest one I saw was with 6 players left and 2 short stacks.The 2nd smallest said call the all in and he had him covered by about 400 chips(blinds 400/200) I didn't bother calling but the other 5 flat called.It was checked down till the board was showing and the short stack had pocket aces and with 2 aces on the board made quads.Needless to say the tit who said call was immediately all-in on the next hand and we all called and busted him.:lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idontfeardeath Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Re: Cheating in Coolers Its so horrible when your big stack with 6 left and you just cant get rid of one of the short stacks. Or when your big stack with 2 to go and the other player has set there status to sit out next hand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Re: Cheating in Coolers Its so horrible when your big stack with 6 left and you just cant get rid of one of the short stacks. In these conditions, can't you just click on "sit out", ignore the table completely, wait for your prize and start a new game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starshine Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Re: Cheating in Coolers no don't think the sit out is a good idea, I was on a few tables with 6 left and one sit out and it just happened one time that the sit out came in the money, even when sit out was the biggest, cause than the others just start to fold as long the sit out is gone, that is rather boring and sometimes takes a while, but seems to happen often Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted September 11, 2008 Author Share Posted September 11, 2008 Re: Cheating in Coolers no don't think the sit out is a good idea' date=' I was on a few tables with 6 left and one sit out and it just happened one time that the sit out came in the money, even when sit out was the biggest, cause than the others just start to fold as long the sit out is gone, that is rather boring and sometimes takes a while, but seems to happen often[/quote'] I'm so rarely the big stack in these (because I don't think that accumulating chips is the right strategy) that I haven't really thought too much about how to play in that situation. But my impression is that big stacks tend to try too hard to knock out the last shorter stack. OK, literally sitting out has obvious disadvantages, as you say. But although it's probably tempting to try to end the thing as quickly as possible, I think that just being patient is probably a better strategy, Remember, you don't need to stay as chip leader: dropping to second or third place doesn't hurt your chances of cashing that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heniek31 Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Re: Cheating in Coolers I have just played 4 of em (20, 10, 2x5) and won them all. I didn't find anything suspicious. As Slapdash says, patient games pays up. When blinds go up to 50/100 then I play position and other players and not my cards. I would have to agree, about taking chat facility out of those games and problem would be solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idontfeardeath Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Re: Cheating in Coolers On VC when you get to the last 5 you dont have to finish :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idontfeardeath Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Re: Cheating in Coolers Another thing i hate is when im at a table and two people are regurly talking in a language i dont understand - Any type of game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goater14 Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 Re: Cheating in Coolers http://www.uk8ball.com/viewtopic.php?...1&topic=28491 Seems it happens on William hill to, can,t believe some people are that stupid to post on a forum and admit their cheating. hopefully the mods on their will inform will hill and give them his IP address. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted September 15, 2008 Author Share Posted September 15, 2008 Re: Cheating in Coolers http://www.uk8ball.com/viewtopic.php?...1&topic=28491 Seems it happens on William hill to, can,t believe some people are that stupid to post on a forum and admit their cheating. hopefully the mods on their will inform will hill and give them his IP address. :eyes Though if all dishonest people were that thick, then the world would be a better place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starshine Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Re: Cheating in Coolers I just wonder what to do in a cooler when you can be pretty sure that there are some who cheat via msn, like the one who admit that on the link goater posted. As I was in a cooler once, where some french geezers exchanged their msn, and they have been together in coolers the whole morning after that exchanged and it was really quiet on the table than as they talked before a lot. But it was really very obvious that they are helping each other and play together. Like by example only these two have been playing and the one with the bigger stack folded instead of checking couple of times. And other things too. So do I go on live support than? Did that ever happened to one of you? What you doing than? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted September 15, 2008 Author Share Posted September 15, 2008 Re: Cheating in Coolers I just wonder what to do in a cooler when you can be pretty sure that there are some who cheat via msn' date=' like the one who admit that on the link goater posted. As I was in a cooler once, where some french geezers exchanged their msn, and they have been together in coolers the whole morning after that exchanged and it was really quiet on the table than as they talked before a lot. But it was really very obvious that they are helping each other and play together. Like by example only these two have been playing and the one with the bigger stack folded instead of checking couple of times. And other things too. So do I go on live support than? Did that ever happened to one of you? What you doing than?[/quote'] You should definitely report it, though it's likely to be more effective if you dig out some hands as evidence to point support towards, rather than reporting it then and there in the middle of the tournament (not sure if that's what you meant?) The way coolers work, with survival rewarded so much more than in a normal STT, you're more likely to get cases where somebody folds in a situation that looks suspiciously like chip-dumping but is actually innocent. But, of course, if they were literally folding to each other when they could have checked, then there's no legitimate reason for that! (Also, I was tempted to say that nobody would be stupid enough to swap msn's in chat if they were intending to cheat, but having read the link that goater posted ... :lol) By the way, when I started this thread, I wasn't really talking about hard-core cheating like this. I can't say I've noticed anything this bad myself, although maybe I'm just not observant enough, and I've often thought that if two players did want to cheat by colluding, then a Cooler would be a very effective place to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Re: Cheating in Coolers Could one of you possibly tell me, please: apart from Ladbroke's, which are the other poker sites that have coolers available? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Re: Cheating in Coolers :eyes Though if all dishonest people were that thick, then the world would be a better place! :lolThat made me chuckle Slap on this dull dreary day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 Re: Cheating in Coolers Could one of you possibly tell me' date=' please: apart from Ladbroke's, which are the other poker sites that have coolers available?[/quote'] The Boss sites (Virgin, Paradise, PokerKings, ...) have them at buy-ins from €3 to €500, though I've never seen them running at more than €100, and the €50 buy-in ones are the largest that fill up reasonably quickly. PKR and Cryptologic (William Hill, DTD, ...) have them, but call them something different, and they don't seem to be very active above about $20-$30 buy-in. Level 4 of "Rounders" on Prima/Microgaming is much the same (but with longer blind levels) and a $275 buy-in. These also take ages to fill up and have the disadvantage that you only win "tokens" that you can only convert into cash by playing in a Level 5 tournament and cashing. But they have the (rather large, IMO) advantage that you effectively play them with no rake. There may be others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexa Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Re: Cheating in Coolers The Boss sites (Virgin' date=' Paradise, PokerKings, ...) have them at buy-ins from €3 to €500, though I've [b']never seen them running at more than €100, and the €50 buy-in ones are the largest that fill up reasonably quickly. Thanks very much, Slapdash. $50 is enough for me. (Now I just need to find out if it's possible to join any of those with a rakeback deal somehow before I download them!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Re: Cheating in Coolers I believe Pokerkings through the PL link still gives 30% rakeback :ok EDIT: Subject to minimum rake in a month, which I cannot recall what it is.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted October 28, 2008 Author Share Posted October 28, 2008 Re: Cheating in Coolers I didn't notice when I played there, but apparently PokerStars disable chat in their version of this when it gets down to seven players. I quite like that idea. :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 Re: Cheating in Coolers There's been a minor outbreak of people power on the €50 tables recently. A couple of the regulars have started doing things like this: On the bubble. Short-stack (~600 chips goes all-in). "Cheat" (second shortest stack with ~1000 chips) calls. Regular (comfortable stack) calls. On the flop, "cheat" checks and says "CHECK". Regular goes all-in with nothing much. After the usual "you moron" comments, regular says "I was going to check, but after you've told me to I can't collude with you". :tongue2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Re: Cheating in Coolers lol, priceless. Did the 'cheat' cash though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 Re: Cheating in Coolers lol' date=' priceless. Did the 'cheat' cash though?[/quote'] Yes. He called after a rant and the short stack was eliminated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulioArca Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Re: Cheating in Coolers I have just become a victim of a cooler scam. I have seen a few recently where the big stack "times out" when its obvious that his mate is never gonna get there on the river but this is the best one yet. BossMedia Game #145260xxxx: Table (27287xxxx), Cooler - 150.00/300.00 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:04:11 - 2009/02/10 Seat 1: Unknown (0.00) Seat 2: Pulhazorro (810.00) Seat 3: Unknown (0.00) Seat 4: sarilla (1980.00) Seat 5: bigjoe51 (2630.00) Seat 6: Unknown (0.00) Seat 7: joebill (2180.00) Seat 8: Foxinas (5640.00) Seat 9: JulioArca (1760.00) Seat 10: Unknown (0.00) Pulhazorro posts the big blind of 300.00 JulioArca posts the small blind of 150.00 Foxinas is the button *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to JulioArca [9d Kd] sarilla folds bigjoe51 folds joebill folds Foxinas calls 300.00 JulioArca calls 300.00 Pulhazorro checks *** FLOP *** [8d 8s 3s] JulioArca checks Pulhazorro checks Foxinas bets 450.00 JulioArca folds Pulhazorro goes all-in with 510.00 Foxinas folds *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 1800.00 | Rake 0.00 Board: [8d 8s 3s] Pulhazorro won (1800.00), mucks sarilla won (0.00), mucks bigjoe51 won (0.00), mucks joebill won (0.00), mucks Foxinas won (0.00), mucks JulioArca won (0.00), mucks This was definite fold to his mate not a timeout for 60 chips in a 1800 pot with two cards to come. 30-1 odds and nearly 5000 chips left and he folds! Both talking to each other in Portugese (?) whilst the game was on - I feel well stitched up. I called in the hope that I wouldn't be stitched by the allin-fold routine for 510 chips more but didn't bank on the raise 450 fold for 60 routine. If I called the 450 I am sure the short stack was folding but then I was likely to lose to the big stack. I was stuck between a rock and a hard place...:@:@:@:@:@:@:@:@:@:@:@:@:@:@ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Re: Cheating in Coolers total shocker, nothing will be done though. make a complaint though, it will be useful in showing a patern if it happens in the future to an other player You still have 1200 chips, please tell me you cashed ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spencer6666 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Re: Cheating in Coolers this has happend to me a few times before. could we start a thread and post the screenames and sites of the people who are cheating and are 100% sure these are people who are colluding so if plers suspect anything similar they could check to see if the villains names are in the coolers cheating thread ?? or is that a bad idea ?? :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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