Double or nothing STT Bubble

[2damnhype]

I am an occasional player now but had a game last night, in one of those double or nothing STT’s where top 5 get paid, there are six of us left.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

UTG 5,000+

UTG+1 900

CO 900

B 700

SB 1300

BB 1200

I am the BB, blinds are 75/150 and I get dealt QQ.

UTG+1 raises to 300, CO calls, folded round to me.

I push, they both call.

(They have A10 and A8 or something like that, and make a straight on the turn or river, so I am out in 6^th)

I am sure I did the right thing for a normal STT, but in this situation should I have done anything differently because of the flat payout structure?

[AJ]

Re: Double or nothing STT Bubble Mistake in my view, you push in that circumstance to get the chips to try and win. with the flat payout structure, it's all about survival

[ubermonkey1]

Re: Double or nothing STT Bubble yeah definate mistake i think:okwith the pot already built up chances are you would get callers ,and you did. there are a lot of shorter stacks than you so i think i'd fold,one is bound to go out before you.

[RowRow87]

Re: Double or nothing STT Bubble unlucky man

[billy the punter]

Re: Double or nothing STT Bubble The original raiser should've folded with 1600 left, especially as he knows the in the middle caller is likely to have to call. Terrible play from the UTG+1 given the circumstances.

[2damnhype]

Re: Double or nothing STT Bubble Okay, thanks for responses, not concerned about being outdrawn, my worry was more about being making the right play when faced similar circumstances.

[slapdash]

Re: Double or nothing STT Bubble

The original raiser should've folded with 1600 left, especially as he knows the in the middle caller is likely to have to call. Terrible play from the UTG+1 given the circumstances.

I think you've misread the stack sizes: he started with 900, not 1900. The final call by the CO looks the worst play here by a long way, although the initial raise, the call of the initial raise, and the first call of the all-in are all pretty bad as well. I agree with everybody else that 2damnhype should have folded the queens, but apart from the folds by the players not involved in the hand, the all-in is still the best play anybody made in the hand! If I knew both of the other players would call the all-in, I'd be in like a shot.

[ubermonkey1]

Re: Double or nothing STT Bubble oh yeah its technically the best play as the other two shouldn't have called really,trouble is sometimes people dont make the right decisions and you get outdrawn;)with a tourney like this there's no need to be put in that position.

[daftpegasus]

Re: Double or nothing STT Bubble There's a mistake in the stack sizes somewhere because you are up against the UTG+1 who has 900 chips & against the CO with 900 chips. You have 1200 but you say you went out upon losing the hand. Could you confirm the chip stacks because if you had them both covered and had QQ then I'd argue that you should have played the hand and not folded. Admittedly I'd have thought about a call rather than a shove, but the chip stack sizes are key to the answer here and I feel that the information we have so far is incorrect.

[2damnhype]

Re: Double or nothing STT Bubble DP - sorry - i did have both of them covered, I didn't go out on this hand, but it wasn't long after!

[slapdash]

Re: Double or nothing STT Bubble

oh yeah its technically the best play as the other two shouldn't have called really' date='trouble is sometimes people dont make the right decisions and you get outdrawn;)with a tourney like this there's no need to be put in that position.[/quote'] I wasn't defending it on the grounds that it would have worked if the other players had played sensibly. I completely agree: this kind of tounament is basically all about dodging other players' mistakes. I've played quite a few of these, and I'd go so far as to say that when I lose, it's usually because somebody else makes a lunatic call. But you just have to deal with that: you're sitting down with a bunch of suicide bombers, and a lot of the skill involved is trying to make sure you're not in the way when the bombs go off. The point I was making was just that, although I think that 2damnhype made a mistake, he can take some comfort from the fact that he didn't play this hand anywhere near as badly as the other two players.

[GeordieGaz]

Re: Double or nothing STT Bubble I'm very surprised that everyone thinks he should have folded! I would have done exactly the same.... he doesn't have enough chips to sit back and wait for someone else to go out. I have played quite a lot of these Double or Bust games and have tried to sit back because a couple of other players had lower stacks then me but have found that when doing this I tend to get blinded out. You can't really wish for a better hand than QQ 6-handed, you're bound to be a massive fav even against two players.... IMO you made the right move but go unlucky!

[daftpegasus]

Re: Double or nothing STT Bubble

DP - sorry - i did have both of them covered' date=' I didn't go out on this hand, but it wasn't long after![/quote'] No worries it was just confusing me. Having them both covered I would have played it exactly as you did. I presume they split the pot between them as if one of them had lost you would have been in 5th position.

[slapdash]

Re: Double or nothing STT Bubble

I'm very surprised that everyone thinks he should have folded! I would have done exactly the same.... he doesn't have enough chips to sit back and wait for someone else to go out. I have played quite a lot of these Double or Bust games and have tried to sit back because a couple of other players had lower stacks then me but have found that when doing this I tend to get blinded out. You can't really wish for a better hand than QQ 6-handed, you're bound to be a massive fav even against two players.... IMO you made the right move but go unlucky!

Assuming the chip stacks were before posting the blinds (if they were after posting the blinds I think it's even clearer to fold), then what happens if he folds? The worst thing for him would be that the other two split the pot, but that's unlikely, even though it sounds as though that's what happened in practice. Otherwise, it's possible that one of them will go out on this hand, in which case he wins. More likely is that they check it down post-flop or one of them bets and the other folds. In that case, he has the fourth highest chip stack of 1050, ahead of 700 and 600. Even after he posts the small blind next hand, he's still comfortably in fourth place. He's a huge favourite to get into the top 5, especially since the blinds hit the other short stacks before they hit him. I think he'd probably have well over an 80% chance of making the top 5. But if he shoves and gets called by one of the other hands, then he's worse than 80% even against a random hand. Against the kind of hand they're likely to have (Ax?), he's about 70%. And the initial raiser could have AA, KK or AK, in which case he's in even worse shape. I agree that if you go to a showdown, then QQ is an excellent hand to have, but IMO this game is about avoiding showdowns. I agree that folding your way into the last five with a small stack doesn't work. What I think does work is avoiding confrontations, but stealing blinds occasionally while you still have fold equity. If another player has a comfortable but not huge stack, so he's reasonably confident of making the last five, then he's going to be very reluctant to call your all-in blind-steal if calling and losing would seriously hurt his chances.