Samba_SamPa Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Hey all, just wondering how you approach playing pocket Queens, and if there's a position on the table when you wouldn't open raise with them? Just played a useless hand in the PL STT, I knew as I was making the bet on the turn that Chato was going to come back over the top, yet still made the bet, and, sure enough, had to fold to the raise. Should I have just seen a free flop? Here's the HH, all your opinions will be much valued, cheers ***** Hand 1131824486 ***** 10.00/20.00 Texas Hold'em (No Limit ) - 22 June 2008 15:15:10 Punterslounge RR Sp (Real /Tournament ) Seat 1: PLtheDodge (1500.00) Seat 2: PLRIVRD (1490.00) Seat 3: plSamba (1350.00) Seat 4: Arkadiusz3 (1210.00) Seat 5: PL-Fonzie (1510.00) Seat 6: PLTelepee (1754.00) Seat 7: PLdobbin (1750.00) Seat 8: PLkip6 (1500.00) Seat 9: fenners1 (1433.00) Seat 10: KingChato (1503.00) fenners1 post SB 10.00 KingChato post BB 20.00 ** Deal ** PLtheDodge [N/A, N/A] PLRIVRD [N/A, N/A] plSamba [Qc, Qh] Arkadiusz3 [N/A, N/A] PL-Fonzie [N/A, N/A] PLTelepee [N/A, N/A] PLdobbin [N/A, N/A] PLkip6 [N/A, N/A] fenners1 [N/A, N/A] KingChato [N/A, N/A] *** Bet Round 1 *** PLtheDodge Fold PLRIVRD Fold plSamba Raise to 70.00 Arkadiusz3 Fold PL-Fonzie Fold PLTelepee Fold PLdobbin Fold PLkip6 Fold fenners1 Fold KingChato Call 70.00 *** Flop(Board): *** : [Kd, Ah, 7d] *** Bet Round 2 *** KingChato Check plSamba Check *** Turn(Board): *** : [Kd, Ah, 7d, 8c] *** Bet Round 3 *** KingChato Check plSamba Bet 75.00 KingChato Raise to 150.00 plSamba Fold *** Showdown *** : Rake: 0.00 Total Pot: 300.00 PLtheDodge Fold Win: 0.00 PLRIVRD Fold Win: 0.00 plSamba Fold Win: 0.00 Arkadiusz3 Fold Win: 0.00 PL-Fonzie Fold Win: 0.00 PLTelepee Fold Win: 0.00 PLdobbin Fold Win: 0.00 PLkip6 Fold Win: 0.00 fenners1 Fold Win: 0.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Re: How to play the ladies Hehe - I bet this thread attracts a few visitors who dont usually visit the poker forums on PL ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Re: How to play the ladies I think I'd have put the continuation bet in on the flop - you raised pre flop and I think you now need to represent an Ace, even AK.... A bet of 2/3 to 3/4 of the pot. I think your turn bet of 75 is too little and too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted June 22, 2008 Author Share Posted June 22, 2008 Re: How to play the ladies Yeah, totally agree. And I KNEW as I was making the bet on the turn, lol, what's going on there!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nade Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Re: How to play the ladies I'll open up QQ from any position 100% of times ideally. As it turned out in this hand i think you lost the minimum, if you bet 75 on the flop you will get called/raised and shut down after that, the outcome was the same on the turn so pretty standard really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Re: How to play the ladies Did he lose the minimum or did he put the hand down when ahead or when he could have got his opponent to fold? The check on the flop and the half pot bet on the turn exuded weakness - the min reraise from Chato could easily have been taking a shot at it with nothing..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nade Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Re: How to play the ladies Did he lose the minimum or did he put the hand down when ahead or when he could have got his opponent to fold? The check on the flop and the half pot bet on the turn exuded weakness - the min reraise from Chato could easily have been taking a shot at it with nothing..... That's the million $ question. The optimum play is cont. bet to find out where you are, but the bet would have been 75, so if they call/raise you know you're behind so fold there which is what i mean about losing the minimum (You've lost 75 in this situation no matter if you bet the flop or turn0. FWIW check min re-raises on the turn are the number #1 signal of uber uber strength in any NLHE game. There's no greater tell in the game imo. If it's a bluff then i think it's reckless with the board, time of the game (early on) OOP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Re: How to play the ladies FWIW check min re-raises on the turn are the number #1 signal of uber uber strength in any NLHE game. There's no greater tell in the game imo. But players know that - I often bluff with min reraises because I know my opponent will read it as uber strength If it's a bluff then i think it's reckless with the board, time of the game (early on) OOP. I disagree - it means he's read his opponent well (correctly). It needs to work about 40% of the time to be profitable (in terms of tournament chips) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nade Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Re: How to play the ladies Of course players know it, but people still do it every single day because it's a natural reaction to try and extract more with a strong hand. Do you actually think this is a bluff? The reason i say it's reckless if it's a bluff is because there's no need to be getting involved in these spots and bluffing so early in a SNG where the blinds and pots are invariably small. In the end i much prefer Sambas play to chatos no matter what he had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Re: How to play the ladies Chato and Samba were by far the most active players at the table in the early stages of this tournament - a significant proportion of their plays must have been bluffs. Was this hand a bluff? I dont know, but I do expect that chato read Samba as weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nade Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Re: How to play the ladies Chato and Samba were by far the most active players at the table in the early stages of this tournament - a significant proportion of their plays must have been bluffs. Was this hand a bluff? I dont know' date=' but I do expect that chato read Samba as weak.[/quote'] As you were in the game you have tonnes more info then me on the hand and players so can't disagree with your points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatoman Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Re: How to play the ladies Did he lose the minimum or did he put the hand down when ahead or when he could have got his opponent to fold? The check on the flop and the half pot bet on the turn exuded weakness - the min reraise from Chato could easily have been taking a shot at it with nothing..... Hehe... u read me as a book GaF... i was trying to look at the hand history but i couldnt find anything below 15-30 blinds. Im pretty sure i didnt had the A, nor even the K, but... as GaF pointed it out, i saw weakness on that spot and tried to built a bluffable pot :) P.S By the Way, in other hand... i had queens and the A came and Samba made me fold my queens too :sad. Samba u maniak!!!! u didnt had the A Seat 1: PLtheDodge (1805.00) Seat 2: PLRIVRD (620.00) Seat 3: plSamba (2555.00) Seat 6: PLTelepee (3054.00) Seat 7: PLdobbin (1370.00) Seat 8: PLkip6 (1865.00) Seat 10: KingChato (3731.00) KingChato post SB 100.00 PLtheDodge post BB 200.00 ** Deal ** PLtheDodge [N/A, N/A] PLRIVRD [N/A, N/A] plSamba [N/A, N/A] PLTelepee [N/A, N/A] PLdobbin [N/A, N/A] PLkip6 [N/A, N/A] KingChato [Qs, Qc] *** Bet Round 1 *** PLRIVRD Fold plSamba Raise to 700.00 PLTelepee Fold PLdobbin Fold PLkip6 Fold KingChato Call 700.00 PLtheDodge Fold *** Flop(Board): *** : [Jc, 6s, Ad] *** Bet Round 2 *** KingChato Check plSamba Bet 1600.00 KingChato Fold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nade Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Re: How to play the ladies That's a pretty sick play if it was a bluff. HH for evidence though ;). My opinion on SNGs is play uber tight the first couple of levels as the pots are too small early on to bother getting fancy but i'm not sure on the structure of this tourn and i haven't played them for a couple of months so maybe i'm out of touch .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Re: How to play the ladies My opinion on SNGs is play uber tight the first couple of levels as the pots are too small early on That's my view too :ok however it doesn't mean it's the only valid strategy to follow.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nade Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Re: How to play the ladies No surprise it's your view too as think i got a lot of my SNG strategy from you Gaf :$ :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatoman Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Re: How to play the ladies I am not an STT player, but i think the tight approach at the beginning is correct. However... i have never played STTs with that strategy and i think i have a decent ROI. Sometimes i do the exact opposite, i try to stablish some kind of a maniac image at the beggining (never losing more than the 25% of my stack), so my big hands would get big payouts if they came. Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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