Random Nade Thread

[Nade]

(I know, nice thread title) Minus 15 buyins in 3 days i've played this week. Thank the lord (or me) for bankroll management. Still a few k's up this year though been running like dog dirt all but maybe 3weeks this year. Said it a few times but you really do need to be clinically insane to play poker :ok Just felt like sharing the wonderful news with you all :)

[BAM]

Re: Vomit I hit a rough patch earlier this year and lost over half my bankroll but I have managed to get it back with a couple of nice tourney wins (funnily enough). Stick at it Nade, shit happens :ok

[Nade]

Random Nade Thread Thanks WASP :) Looked back at the last 3 days played and at every pot where i've lost or won $50+ as it's the big pots that make the sessions really. The total for these pots is -$1265. This where the money was lost: Donking off/ Tilt: $500 Bad luck/ Cold deck: $800 Races: $200 Where money won: Good play: $110 Bad play by oppo: $160 Cold decked oppo: $280 Rounded numbers up and down so tally isn't exact to Slap's or Gaf's standards but they still tell the story. ------- What seems to have happened is i opened my raising ranges to more marginal hands to fit in with the 'norm' and in doing so got into more tricky spots which led to losing more hands and going on tilt. My pre flop raising has risen over the last week from 8% to 10%. I'm just going to go back to basics and do what works for me, although still have to maintain more aggression from LP but it seems what works for me is staying fairly tight and picking my spots vs other tight opponents who seem to be paying attention to my style. Too many times i'm getting into mini battles vs total idiots, end up playing weird hands in weird spots and tilting etc. which i realise is playing straight into their hands, so they're effectively outplaying me recently. Just need to regain my edge which was using a tight image to pick up pots on dry boards, avoid big pots with marginal hands and playing big hands uber aggressively.

[dazdiamonds]

Re: Vomit -------

What seems to have happened is i opened my raising ranges to more marginal hands to fit in with the 'norm' and in doing so got into more tricky spots which led to losing more hands and going on tilt. My pre flop raising has risen over the last week from 8% to 10%. I'm just going to go back to basics and do what works for me, although still have to maintain more aggression from LP but it seems what works for me is staying fairly tight and picking my spots vs other tight opponents who seem to be paying attention to my style. Too many times i'm getting into mini battles vs total idiots, end up playing weird hands in weird spots and tilting etc. which i realise is playing straight into their hands, so they're effectively outplaying me recently. Just need to regain my edge which was using a tight image to pick up pots on dry boards, avoid big pots with marginal hands and playing big hands uber aggressively.

ive been experiencing very similar to what you have said lately. like you say its just a case of getting back to basics. i took a few days off playing cash games and played a few stt and mtts,then got back to the cash tables and found i was playing my normal game again and winning most of the time[except for a lost buyin last night]. gl and i hope you turn it around very soon

[Nade]

Re: Vomit Tyty. And in better news: Just crushed a Pro. Ok, not an amazing well known player but he's won a WPT and a bracelet, Maciek Gracz. Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver) CO ($96.70) Button =#A500AF(Maciek Gracz)/ ($145.30) Hero ($100.50) BB ($61.25) UTG ($173.65) MP ($100) Preflop: Hero is SB with A, 7. 3 folds, Button =#A500AF(Maciek Gracz)/ raises to $3.5, Hero raises to $12, 1 fold, Button =#A500AF(Maciek Gracz)/ calls $8. Flop: ($24.50) 7, 3, T (2 players) Hero bets $18, Maciek Gracz raises to $133.8 (All-In), Hero calls $71 (All-In). Turn: ($202.50) 6 (2 players, 2 all-in) River: ($202.50) 8 (2 players, 2 all-in) Final Pot: $202.50 Hero has Ad 7s (one pair, sevens). Maciek Gracz has Qh Kh (high card, king). Outcome: Hero wins $202.50. Background to this hand was i was playing him on 2 different tables so we knew eachother's plays quite well. Early on i had 88 flop came AT5 he check raised me i took my time before saying AK and folding, i said the only hands he could really have were AT or 55, he said i was right and good fold. Later on i made a comment after a hand that i folded a big-ish hand to him ( i had 97) on flop 755, actually not a big deal. But was giving him the impression i was giving him tonnes of respect so knew this when he moved in he wouldn't be doing it with a set as he didn't think i was the type of donk he'd get a call off by going AI. Only hand i could put him on that was ahead was AT but with a few hundred hands playing together he preferred to re-raise his big hands not go AI so discounted that. Only thing that made sense was a flush draw as he felt he had fold equity vs very tight player in his eyes and these types of AIs usually signal a draw. Felt i was in a race but i had the best hand at the time. I liked his play vs a supposed very tight player, only prob for him was i knew he was thinking it ;) Great feeling after bad few days to get back to the felt, make a few hundred on a few tables including a great play (imo) vs a Pro.

[Mr Intensity]

Re: Vomit Very nice:notworthy Before the explanation I was thinking wtf?:loon:loon

[glceud]

Re: Vomit

Very nice:notworthy Before the explanation I was thinking wtf?:loon:loon

Even with the explanation I was thinking wtf. Basically got all you chips in as an underdog and got lucky:spank

[happyhornet]

Re: Vomit

Even with the explanation I was thinking wtf. Basically got all you chips in as an underdog and got lucky:spank

I agree with you glceud, it was an odd call based on the hand Nade had. However, if the Mole had made that call and taken down a $10K pot, would we not have applauded his genius.:unsure Well played Nade, your gut instinct served you well:clap

[Nade]

Re: Vomit Thanks Mr Intensity and Hornet :ok Just one of those things where you've got to be in the situation at the time, people can say what they like at the end of the day but it's these situations and decisions that have to be made in the heat of battle, no point having regrets and sitting there on your arses thinking in 10yrs 'what if' i'm testing my play, strategy, instincts every day and it will and is paying dividends. Could say a lot more but what HH says re. the Mole i think sums it up nicely.

[glceud]

Re: Vomit What exactly are you claiming here? you had a gut instinct that you were ahead? well sorry but you were not. If you played this exact hand enough times you would lose money. forget all other possiblities (99% of which you are miles behind) If you had a gut instinct that you would get lucky well i applaud you but as a long term poker strategy I think you will find it flawed. The only possible thing that makes the call a good one is that because of the chips allready in the pot you will lose less in the long run calling than folding. Is my arguement that flawed? am I missing something?

[Nade]

Re: Vomit Well done for perching up as usual with something bad to say. I assume you're old as you admit to being a 'grumpy old punter', well you should act more maturely. No sign of you encouraging when i was down or whatever, you just seem to come alive when there's something bad to say, particularly when there's an opportunity to stick the needle in at me. For what it's worth i was ahead of the range i put him on which is any heart draw and only a slight underdog to his exact hand, for you to say i'm miles behind in 99% other possibilities is ludicrous, poker is a situational game and i've explained my thought process throughout the entire hand, most of it had to do with our previous plays together and not to do with the cards in play and as you get better as a player, it's key to think a lot further into a hand then what your cards are and my results are proven at MTT, STT, HU SNG, HU cash and cash games up to $1/$2 in fact i'm a winning player at every form of NLHE. Reason i post a lot of things showing when i lose is because i'm the type of person who likes and needs a lot of encouragement and PL usually delivers in urging and lifting my spirits, even a small post from WASP whos game i respect a lot means a lot :). So for you glceud to get pretty worked up over a 5% margin is pretty sad imo. And as HHornet says if Mole had done it everyone would be cheering but because you see me as an easy touch, not too respected then you shoot your mouth over 5%, well not now or anymore because like it or not i know my shit.

[jquik]

Re: Vomit

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt 990 games 0.047 secs 21,063 games/sec Board: 3c 7h Th equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 45.657% 45.66% 00.00% 452 0.00 { Ad7s } Hand 1: 54.343% 54.34% 00.00% 538 0.00 { KhQh }

First off... props to you Nade. It was obviously a call based on gut instinct and I think we'd all be lying if each of us said we'd never made a semi-'hero' call like this. nh :P Having whacked the situation into pokerstove it shows that it was pretty much a coinflip and you came out on the right side. Personally, being a HUSNG player and not a cash player, I'm interested to see what your thought pattern was... A couple of questions from me, bearing in mind I have little-to-no cash knowledge! 1. Say the 3rd heart came on the turn and you lose... do you put your call down as: -Donking off/ Tilt -Bad luck/ Cold deck -Races 2. What would you do if this was the 1st hand of a session with no reads on the villian and does the fact you're playing a FTP Pro change your decision (even slightly)? 3. Finally, If you think Gracz has you down as a solid player, what makes you think you have him beat? For me a massive RR like this screams that my MP is beat. Without trying to sway this way too much into a 'strategy' post, for me personally this is a fold, but it's interesting to see what others think! However, it's nice to have one of those hands that makes you feel your luck has changed and that awful downswing is over!

[Nade]

Re: Vomit Nice post jq :ok Firstly, already pointed out my thought processes through the hand. The hand 100% goes down in races, win or lose, i knew calling it was a race and so prepared myself for it before i called, but felt i was ahead of his range which i worked out using my analysis of the situation as pointed out in above posts. If it was first hand i don't even re-raise pre flop, muck it nearly always to establish the tight image, i never call anymore in SB with Ace rag as my PO2 stats show i had huge leaks from the SB so have tightened that up a lot the last couple of weeks. Yes the fact it was a Pro and a good player did have influence in my decision but he had tells like i said usually re-raising with strong hands and certainly not pushing in so much like that, i saw him with big hands very often (he went on heaters at both tables i was on) and he didn't push that much in once, so to do it against me who he knew was a tight solid player there was no way he had a huge hand (i know that sounds a bit paradoxical etc. but my read was spot on, gimme some credit ;)). Regarding him pushing means a MP is beat, it's key to analyse the hand from start to present, what your image is what your opponents image is and how they would act against your image etc. It all completely made sense to me that he had a flush draw 100%, if i haven't put my thoughts across correctly and people can't see how i can come to this conclusion too then i may have to go over it a few times to clarify 100% in a new post or something but i think it's pretty succinct. Seems like a donk call to most perhaps but to me in the situation at the time, playing hundreds of hands against Gracz the situation made perfect sense and i was right. At the end of the day it's called gambling and felt i was in a race but gambled that i'd win it feeling my instincts to his range were right and they were. I won, i won a big pot vs a Pro. after analysing a situation greatly imo after going through a bad spell i felt like sharing some love with the good people of PL, i didn't think it would turn into a strategy debate but i love a bit of strategy talk :ok

[jquik]

Re: Vomit Nah bud, can totally see where you're coming from! As said, I'm a complete cash newbie! For me, playing HU SNG's, I need 52.5% equity for an AI here to be a +EV play, hence why I muck it. However, with you explaining it as you did, I kinda sussed that this in one of those hands you have to have seen the history for and have the kind of reads you can't gain without playing the pots with Gracz first hand. Gracz obv. felt like he had decent fold equity and that he could maybe push you out uncontested (you reckon this maybe why he made the massive RR?) but underestimated your reads on him! I agree completely with those saying that if you make this move at higher stakes it could be classed a gutsy, genious move and like you say, to some it can be seen as a donk call. It's pretty much completely circumstantial. Again, NH sir and it's always good to win a race when you feel like lady luck is kicking you in the balls and you can't even win a 70/30 ;)

[Tom Hedonist]

Re: Vomit Nade, mate, I think you're being a bit crappy towards glceud. TBH I think your reply to his post was a bit OTT :sad I realise he may not have been as supportive as you'd like, but (for me at least) PL isn't just about mutual back slapping. If we only ever agreed with one another, it'd be a pretty dull place. glceud's post may not have been encouraging, but he wasn't being rude in anyway, he just disagreed with what you'd said. OK he didn't have your read at the time, but he wasn't he calling you a f*cking idiot either. I must admit, when I first read your post, I thought "Blimey, he got a bit a lucky there. If it hadn't worked out, he'd have been down even more." However when I read your explanation, I understood where you were coming from. Sometimes, its important to playback at the ultra aggressive players in an ultra aggressive manner - take the fight to them, and punish the b*st*rds :ok If you're going to post hands up, you have to be prepared for the good and the bad in response. Personally I think its great that not everyone agrees with you. Alternative ideas give us ALL something to think about. Even if they're ideas we don't immediately agree with. I'm not trying to p*ss you off here, or stop you from posting. I just think you need to calm down a bit if people don't agree with you. FWIW I'm made up that you posted a win. Long may it continue :cheers

[slick mick]

Re: Vomit Nade is getting 2 to 1 odds on a 45% call, even without his read it's a +EV call over time.

[Valiant23]

Re: Vomit

And as HHornet says if Mole had done it everyone would be cheering but because you see me as an easy touch, not too respected then you shoot your mouth over 5%, well not now or anymore because like it or not i know my shit.

Firstly, you can't really use the Mole in this context. I don't think its fair on him or his play. Secondly, Glceud doesn't care what level or who the player is, as he proved when he questioned Mole's play in a similar fashion.

Just need to regain my edge which was using a tight image to pick up pots on dry boards, avoid big pots with marginal hands and playing big hands uber aggressively.

I have to say Nade that this call, however it turned out must surely come under this category? However, the truth is that when we're running bad as you have been (The total for these pots is -$1265) an 'ugly' win is as welcome as winning with AK vs AQ on an A K Q board. I'm glad we've got grumpy old men like glceud and WASP on here. They'll tell it how they see it and I hope they don't change.

Nade is getting 2 to 1 odds on a 45% call, even without his read it's a +EV call over time.

Which is fair enough, but still the kind of situations you said you were going to try and avoid.

[happyhornet]

Re: Vomit

Firstly, you can't really use the Mole in this context. I don't think its fair on him or his play. Secondly, Glceud doesn't care what level or who the player is, as he proved when he questioned Mole's play in a similar fashion. Fair point Mr V.:ok My intention was certainly not to denegrate Mole or his play:$, I purely mentioned him as someone who I have seen make fantastic calls based on his read of the opponent. Apologies if this was misconstrued.

[Nade]

Re: Vomit

Firstly' date=' you can't really use the Mole in this context. I don't think its fair on him or his play. Secondly, Glceud doesn't care what level or who the player is, as he proved when he questioned Mole's play in a similar fashion.[/quote'] I think Mole was used as the example because we can all relate to him as he posts on the forum, we could replace his name with Phil Ivey and the point would still be the same. Sure, in an ideal world we all hope to play optimally at every point and use our analysis of our games to perfection but sometimes you've got to go with a situation and play the situation albeit with a marginal hand. My plan was to take the pot down pre flop, the situation then developed further and to go with my instinct and read i had to play the big pot with a marginal hand. No matter how much people even the top Pros look to avoid certain confrontations i think it's inevitable sometimes you're just going to be in a spot that you don't particularly like but have to go with. TomH: I am 100% open to comments from all and sundry about strategy if it's posted in the strategy forum but to get that a lot of criticism for a 5% margin for a hand posted in poker chat is totally OTT imo and why i got annoyed. - If people or mods want the hand posted in Strategy so we can have a reasoned debate and i can post all my thoughts then fine with me.

[glceud]

Re: Vomit Nade, A few points 1. I am not "sticking the needle in at you" because I see you as "an easy touch or not too respected" I have done it to everyone on here from Paul Ross and GaF to some guy who's first post on here was to pinpoint a freeroll no one had heard of. 2. " I only come alive when theres something bad to say" perhaps, I do tend to post when I disagree with the majority of replies but if I want a one way conversation I'll talk to my 5 month old daughter. I post in this way as I believe it is the best way to learn. 3. You cant justify any thing simply by saying you win all the time at all forms of poker, while it may be true it doesnt mean everything you do is correct. 4. This was how you started the post

And in better news: Just crushed a Pro.

Well you didnt, you were out played,The Pro stuck all his chips in when he had fold equity and even though you called he was still ahead- his read on you was far better than yours on him. Pokers all about maximising your winnings and minimzing your losses so in this case you have done the latter. Well done you can stick yourself on a pedastal with The Mole and Phil Ivy. Thats all I have to say on the matter.

[slapdash]

Re: Vomit

Well you didnt, you were out played,

While I agree that Nade didn't "outplay" the pro, I can't see how he was outplayed either. All the chips going in on the flop was pretty much the par result: I think they both played it well.

[BAM]

Re: Vomit

I'm glad we've got grumpy old men like glceud and WASP on here. They'll tell it how they see it and I hope they don't change.

HTF did I get roped into this??? I wouldn't say I'm grumpy like glceud I'm just more direct and to the point. There are some threads on here that Mr Grumpy will grump about where as I will just go and stick my hand in the blender as it is less pain :ok

[Nade]

Re: Vomit Ok i was slightly exaggerating 'crushed a pro' but was quite happy at winning the hand and wasn't expecting a debate about the hand so just phrased it inaccurately if you like ;) As i said in an earlier post Gracz played it very well, did all he could to win that hand, but likewise i did all i could to win it and the hand i went in with i.e. a pair of sevens ended up taking down the pot so don't think i was outplayed at all etc etc. Good debate people :ok

[Nade]

Re: Vomit First of two posts: Over the last 5 days inc today, only played about 12hrs but have made 11 buy-ins. Still getting cold decked and rivered 2 outters in big pots and looking through my Queens have been done 5times for a total of -$200 :( but i've really not donked off much at all and i've added a couple of new dimensions to my game including more use of the check-raise OOP and just putting others under pressure when their bets don't make sense. This hand happened a couple of days ago - I thought i played it like a ' genius' ;) for a few hrs but as i thought more and more about the hand and other hands i had a mini eureka moment. Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver) UTG ($53.75) MP ($156.75) CO ($100) Hero ($98) SB ($169) BB ($101.50) Preflop: Hero is Button with Q, 7. 3 folds, Hero raises to $3.5, SB calls $3, 1 fold. Flop: ($8) 8, 3, Q (2 players) SB checks, Hero bets $5, SB calls $5. Turn: ($18) K (2 players) SB checks, Hero bets $10, SB raises to $30, Hero calls $20. River: ($78) 4 (2 players) SB bets $64, Hero calls $59.50 (All-In). Final Pot: $197 SB has Th 9c (high card, king). Hero has Qh 7h (one pair, queens). Outcome: Hero wins $197. Ok, i read him right for a draw and won a good pot but it occured to me that WTF am i doing. I put him on a draw, thought i had the best hand on the turn but just called. The irony of the hand is i won $197 pot by making an awful play on the turn, yet if i'd put in a re-raise all in like i should have done if i thought my hand was ahead i'd only have won a $133 pot. It all of a sudden made sense to me to re-raise if i sense weakness in an opponent instead of calling and hoping they miss their draw and would bluff into me.

[Valiant23]

Re: Vomit

It all of a sudden made sense to me to re-raise if i sense weakness in an opponent instead of calling and hoping they miss their draw and would bluff into me.

The first part of this statement is cash game attitude, the second part is tournament attitude. Well thought out post Nade. :ok We're still gonna kick your arse in the League Cup

[Nade]

Re: Vomit Second of two posts: These hands show how i've used the re-raise to great effect after the hand above opened my eyes to a new strategy. Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver) BB ($122.65) Hero ($99.50) MP ($102.35) CO ($79.70) Button ($140.60) SB ($115.30) Preflop: Hero is UTG with K, A. Hero calls $1, MP raises to $4.5, 2 folds, SB calls $4, 1 fold, Hero calls $3.50. Flop: ($14.50) J, 8, T (3 players) SB checks, Hero checks, MP checks. Turn: ($14.50) T (3 players) SB bets $9, Hero raises to $25, MP folds, SB calls $16. River: ($64.50) 8 (2 players) SB checks, Hero bets $38, SB folds. Final Pot: $64.50 Results in white below: Hero has Kh As (two pair, tens and eights). Outcome: Hero wins $64.50. Reason i limp with AK is because i couldn't be bothered to play anymore, was just about to leave the table but felt i had to play it but then a kind situation developed. Soon as the guy calls my re-raise i know he's on a draw as checked the flop so no way he's gonna call with two T's and 8's there. Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver) BB ($47) UTG ($62.30) MP ($121.45) Hero ($124.90) Button ($123.30) SB ($60.30) Preflop: Hero is CO with 7, 7. 2 folds, Hero raises to $3.5, 2 folds, BB calls $2.50. Flop: ($7.50) 3, 6, J (2 players) BB checks, Hero bets $5, BB raises to $10, Hero calls $5. Turn: ($27.50) Q (2 players) BB bets $9, Hero raises to $43, BB folds. Final Pot: $45.50 Results in white below: No showdown. Hero wins $45.50. Wasn't really sure what he had but it didn't seem like the play he'd make with a jack so reckoned he was on a flush draw and the Q didn't complete any draws and it was very unlikely he had a Q so i represented it instead, he was pretty tight and wasn't going to call $30 on a draw. -------- The two hands are the most recent ones and happened today so can dig them out easily. It just makes a lot more sense to me now to put more pressure on my opponents instead of looking to trap them although trapping i'll still do. I've only been practicing it the last couple of days but it's proven to me to be a very useful tool so i can take pots away on later streets. Thing is it's very read dependant and i can see when not on my game and my timing's off it has the potential to lose big pots but it's definitely a good tool to use as a perceived tight player. Maybe slightly random posts, just wanted to get my thoughts down from inside my small brain onto somewhere :ok Edit: A lot more thinking gone into the hands then stated but this isn't strategy so don't want to bore people with an even longer post!

[robsterling]

Re: Vomit

Second of two posts: These hands show how i've used the re-raise to great effect after the hand above opened my eyes to a new strategy. Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver) BB ($122.65) Hero ($99.50) MP ($102.35) CO ($79.70) Button ($140.60) SB ($115.30) Preflop: Hero is UTG with K, A. Hero calls $1, MP raises to $4.5, 2 folds, SB calls $4, 1 fold, Hero calls $3.50. Flop: ($14.50) J, 8, T (3 players) SB checks, Hero checks, MP checks. Turn: ($14.50) T (3 players) SB bets $9, Hero raises to $25, MP folds, SB calls $16. River: ($64.50) 8 (2 players) SB checks, Hero bets $38, SB folds. Final Pot: $64.50 Results in white below: Hero has Kh As (two pair, tens and eights). Outcome: Hero wins $64.50. Reason i limp with AK is because i couldn't be bothered to play anymore, was just about to leave the table but felt i had to play it but then a kind situation developed. Soon as the guy calls my re-raise i know he's on a draw as checked the flop so no way he's gonna call with two T's and 8's there.

Why are you betting the river? Are you betting A high for value? Because I dont think you are folding out anything beating you. I prefer a check here really.

[Nade]

Re: Vomit

Why are you betting the river? Are you betting A high for value? Because I dont think you are folding out anything beating you. I prefer a check here really.

For 2 reasons: I get a lot of hands that are beating me to fold i.e a J might call the turn but can't call the river, also pocket 9's can call the turn but not the river, even someone with Q9 will fold nearly always. Secondly i want to maintain an image of when i raise i've got the goods and not raising lightly so checking down A high shows a sign of weakness that i am raising lightly and when i come up against a bit of resistance i'll check down. Another point is the opponents on the table think they know exactly where they are with me, oh look a re-raise on the 2nd T, and a bet out on the river so obviously had a FH, i know exactly how he plays don't have to worry about him etc.. I posted a hand in strategy the other day where i got a player to bluff with Q high into my top pair A showing how these subtleties of letting your opponent think they know where they are with you and taking advantage of it is a great weapon.

[robsterling]

Re: Vomit

For 2 reasons: I get a lot of hands that are beating me to fold i.e a J might call the turn but can't call the river, also pocket 9's can call the turn but not the river, even someone with Q9 will fold nearly always.

I dont think anyone plays Q9 like that, and any pair that calls the turn must call the river as I imagine an 8 is a tiny part of your range there.

Secondly i want to maintain an image of when i raise i've got the goods and not raising lightly so checking down A high shows a sign of weakness that i am raising lightly and when i come up against a bit of resistance i'll check down. Another point is the opponents on the table think they know exactly where they are with me' date=' oh look a re-raise on the 2nd T, and a bet out on the river so obviously had a FH, i know exactly how he plays don't have to worry about him etc.. [/quote'] I can understand this to an extent, but I thought you were leaving the table? And I also don't think it's inconceivable SB can have a 10 there and may c/r the river. I don't mind showing down A high there myself, people at 100nl don't tend to adjust their play much from my experience - I often switch from 22/18 to 34/30 ish and the way people play against me won't change much (if at all).

[Nade]

Re: Vomit

I dont think anyone plays Q9 like that' date=' and any pair that calls the turn must call the river as I imagine an 8 is a tiny part of your range there.[/quote'] I think it's a possibility Q9 would be played like this though very passive. And i don't see any way in the world any pair on the turn would call on the river and if they do it's crazy on a double paired board with strong re-raise on the turn and strong bet on the river - The bet sizes represent a 10 perfectly IMO and that's key. I'm just confused by your logic there TBH :unsure I play against pretty much the same people day after day so we get very familiar with eachother. IMO anyone with a T on the turn is re-raising no doubts, it was just standard to me that they didn't have it so it turned into an ample opportunity to take the pot with a realistic bet on the river. They folded instantly FWIW.