happyhornet Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 Here is a hand from last nights PLOPS final. After the showdown SteveO asked what I put Falconni on and it made me think that I should have seen the warning signs before I threw away half of my chips.:$ ***** Hand 1048258571 ***** 75.00/150.00 Texas Hold'em (No Limit ) - 21 April 2008 21:26:38 PLOPS Final (Real /Tournament ) Seat 1: GazBlades9 (6039.00) Seat 2: JulioArca (3565.00) Seat 3: hornet01 (5288.00) Seat 4: GeordiGaz (5891.00) Seat 5: GpdDelusio (4513.00) Seat 6: rivrdu (5802.00) Seat 7: Falconni (6142.00) Seat 8: Red_Fear1 (3929.00) Seat 9: uberpl1 (3831.00) JulioArca post SB 75.00 hornet01 post BB 150.00 ** Deal ** GazBlades9 [N/A, N/A] JulioArca [N/A, N/A] hornet01 [Jc, Js] GeordiGaz [N/A, N/A] GpdDelusio [N/A, N/A] rivrdu [N/A, N/A] Falconni [N/A, N/A] Red_Fear1 [N/A, N/A] uberpl1 [N/A, N/A] *** Bet Round 1 *** GeordiGaz Fold GpdDelusio Fold rivrdu Fold Falconni Raise to 600.00 Red_Fear1 Fold uberpl1 Fold GazBlades9 Fold JulioArca Fold hornet01 Call 600.00 ( I felt a call here was OK as it was heads up. His range could include a fairly large number of hands that I am ahead of. Should I have re-raised. If he comes over the top or even calls, my Jacks are in trouble) *** Flop(Board): *** : [3s, 5s, 2d] *** Bet Round 2 *** hornet01 Check Falconni Bet 450.00 hornet01 Raise to 1200.00 Falconni Raise to 1950.00 hornet01 Call 1950.00 ( I ruled out a set, straight or two pair, so I fathomed I am behind AA KK QQ, but ahead of Ax or middle pairs, which is why I re-raised his 450 bet. When he re-re-raised, I sensed that he probably had me beaten) *** Turn(Board): *** : [3s, 5s, 2d, 2s] *** Bet Round 3 *** hornet01 Check Falconni Bet 300.00 hornet01 Call 300.00 *** River(Board): *** : [3s, 5s, 2d, 2s, 9d] *** Bet Round 4 *** hornet01 Check Falconni Bet 300.00 hornet01 Call 300.00 (Any show of strength from Falconni, and I would have probably folded, but it seemed worth another 600 just to see if he did have AK AQ or 10's. Should I have raised either on the turh or on the river? Perhaps even all-in?) *** Showdown *** : Rake: 0.00 Total Pot: 6375.00 GazBlades9 Fold Win: 0.00 JulioArca Fold Win: 0.00 hornet01 Fold Win: 0.00 GeordiGaz Fold Win: 0.00 GpdDelusio Fold Win: 0.00 rivrdu Fold Win: 0.00 Falconni [Qd, Qc] Two pair queens and deuces Win: 6375.00 Red_Fear1 Fold Win: 0.00 Any thoughts here would be appreciated. :ok I do find these situations difficult especially with under-cards to what is still a premium pair. Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 Re: How bad was my play here? I'd have probably lost more chips than you there :unsure His reraise of 750 to 1950 on the flop is extremely scary and indicates extreme strength IMO (far stronger than an overpair, QQ). After the turn, his bets are very very small and calling it down is probably pretty good play.... (though it can also look like he's drawing and trying to draw cheaply - I definitely wouldn't put him on QQ with such small bets) How did you discount a set? I will often play a small pair that way..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhornet Posted April 21, 2008 Author Share Posted April 21, 2008 Re: How bad was my play here? How did you discount a set? I will often play a small pair that way..... Not knowing Falconni as a player, I assumed that to open from 4th position with a 3xBB raise probably didn't indicate 55 33 or 22:ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubermonkey1 Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 Re: How bad was my play here? yeah i agree:okbut falconni seemed to be playing very solidly , in that case surely you should be thinking he almost certainly has you beat post flop after the re re raise. i probably would have lost a bit less than you :unsurei would have re raised preflop to 1500. if im reraised i would fold as i would be at best a 50/50 but probably behind. if i was called i would have bet out for about 1500 on the flop .any raise or call thats it ,no more betting/calling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hedonist Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 Re: How bad was my play here? First let me say this is a great question and a really good example of how pJJ can get you into trouble, especially when you're out of position post flop. I've tried to answer this question three times now, but each time I keep deleting my answer - the more I think about it, the more I think I'm wrong. Each time it just makes my brain hurt :eek:lol:lol I certainly don't think you played it badly :ok It does remind me of something I heard Daniel Negreneau say recently about the difference between pros and amateurs at the WSOP ME... he said something along the lines of "When trying to work out where they are in a hand, the amateurs tend to overbet." I'd say this is true of your post flop reraise - you could have found out the same info with a smaller reraise, by raising to about 800 or 900. I don't mean to criticise, as this is something I'm guilty of also :$ I guess the best advice in this situation is the old adage "Play pocket Jacks like they were pocket eights." Although call pre flop, check fold post flop does seem awfully weak... ...my brain is hurting again :tongue2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhornet Posted April 23, 2008 Author Share Posted April 23, 2008 Re: How bad was my play here? Cheers for your thoughts guys:ok. Looking now, I should have seen Falconni's re-re-raise on that flop as extreme strength and let it go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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