Harrington on Cash

[GaF]

Re: Harrington on Cash Wow you've gone through it fast - I'm still on part 2!!! :$

[Nade]

Re: Harrington on Cash

Wow you've gone through it fast - I'm still on part 2!!! :$

I'm off Uni now so have all day every day to do whatever i like, and a large part has been reading the books! (Over and over again as it's hard to take in all his complex theory :lol)

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Re: Harrington on Cash This sums up his theory on how to play monsters: "Although the smaller betting strategies tend to keep the opponent in the hand a little more often, and as a result do a little better collecting an extra bet or winning a medium sized pot, the big betting strategy more than compensates by collecting the whole pot at the end. Given our assumption that result (winning the opponent's whole stack) occurs less than 5 percent of the time with the big bet strategy, but that's still enough to make it a dominating strategy. This result, however, confirms one of the basic tenents of deep stack poker. When you have a hand so strong that your opponents entire stack is at risk if he chooses to play the hand, you need to play the hand in such a way that you can put him all in on the river without needing to make a bet so large that it's out of line with the action that has occurred so far." Vol.1 Pg245

[slapdash]

Re: Harrington on Cash

Have posted this hand on 2+2 to see what they come back with..... http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=210527

Looks as though you've got them stumped! :ok

[GaF]

Re: Harrington on Cash lol - I think I maybe didn't follow the right posting conventions :$ However the link to the hand convertor wasnt working at the time and I took the view that it probably didn't support boss anyway......

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Re: Harrington on Cash Another advantage i've found of betting the pot with a big hand is people can interpret it as a bluff! Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver) MP ($96) CO ($204.75) Button ($110.65) SB ($98) Hero ($249.80) UTG ($100) Preflop: Hero is BB with A, A. 3 folds, Button raises to $3, 1 fold, Hero raises to $12, Button calls $8. Flop: ($23.50) 2, 3, 5 (2 players) Hero bets $22.5, Button raises to $99.65 (All-In), Hero calls $77.15. Turn: ($0) 8 (2 players, 1 all-in) River: ($0) 2 (2 players, 1 all-in) Final Pot: $222.80 Results in white below: Hero has As Ad (two pair, aces and twos). Button has Ts Ac (one pair, twos). Outcome: Hero wins $222.80. Of course fact i'm reraising the button could look like a bluff anyway but the big pot bet does look suspect in a lot of scenarios. I like it :ok

[GaF]

Re: Harrington on Cash

Another advantage i've found of betting the pot with a big hand is people can interpret it as a bluff!

Definitely - I will often call a large bet, where I would fold to a smaller "value" bet. I will often bluff with small bets and bet big with monsters. The Mole says something similar here - http://www.punterslounge.com/forum/1096378-post284.html - that he calls because the bet is too big and he has a tougher choice if his opponent bets less.

[slapdash]

Re: Harrington on Cash

Definitely - I will often call a large bet, where I would fold to a smaller "value" bet. I will often bluff with small bets and bet big with monsters. The Mole says something similar here - http://www.punterslounge.com/forum/1096378-post284.html - that he calls because the bet is too big and he has a tougher choice if his opponent bets less.

Yeah, I was a bit surprised that applied at the level the mole plays at. You'd thing that if you tend to call big bets and fold to smaller bets it would be easy to exploit, so you wouldn't generally do it.

[slapdash]

Re: Harrington on Cash

I bought these today, but haven't really started reading them yet. Quote:

- Never do anything all of the time

I don't think that doing different things with the same cards and doing the same thing with different cards are necessarily contradictory. I have a half formed kind of idea that in a deep stacked game it might be more important to vary your play: I'll think about it and see if I can articulate it.

Rather belatedly :$: In the Full Tilt Poker Strategy Guide, in the chapter on "post-flop play" by Chris Ferguson, he gives lots of examples where he recommends playing aggressively on the flop and slowing down on the turn. But then he says that you don't want your opponents to know that when you slow down on the turn you have a marginal hand, so he recommends slowing down some of the time with big hands. So he certainly doesn't seem to think that your "deception" should always be gained by "doing the same thing with different hands" rather than "doing different things with the same hand". I guess the point is that preflop there are a limited number of things you can do, so it's easier to "mix it up" by doing the same thing with different hands, but on later streets there are a lot more possible courses of action you could have taken, so it's easier to mix it up by doing different things with the same hand? By the way, I was interested to read there that he says that when he won the WSOP ME in 2000 (?), he never called preflop (always folded or raised) unless he was in the blinds. That's not just "never when he was first into the pot": really never! Though he says that he's moderated this strategy since. Brian the Wasp has mentioned this book before. A book called "[Poker Site] Strategy Guide" doesn't sound too promising, but I agree with him, it's an excellent book with lots in it to think about. Highly recommended.

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Re: Harrington on Cash Have to remember Slapdash that the level of players is tonnes better now then what it was back in 2000. I imagine back then he could bully people easily and outplay them postflop anyway if needed. Now the fields are so aggressive he wouldn't be able to keep on raising people and get away with it.

[slapdash]

Re: Harrington on Cash

Have to remember Slapdash that the level of players is tonnes better now then what it was back in 2000. I imagine back then he could bully people easily and outplay them postflop anyway if needed. Now the fields are so aggressive he wouldn't be able to keep on raising people and get away with it.

That's true, but I'm not sure he saw it as a bullying strategy. He still seems to think it's a good strategy for people who think they are weaker than the field (and says he still plays more or less the same strategy in limit holdem tournaments). It means you see fewer flops (only when your opponents call, never when you call). It was a long time ago, and it's conceivable that in those days he didn't see himself as one of the favourites ... my impression is that he's not the kind of player to let his ego get in the way of playing what he thinks is his best strategy. And it sounds as though even now he'll call preflop very rarely. Of course, to play this strategy you need to know when to raise and when to fold ... that's the tough part!

[voiceofjoe]

Re: Harrington on Cash

That's true' date=' but I'm not sure he saw it as a bullying strategy. He still seems to think it's a good strategy for people who think they are weaker than the field (and says he still plays more or less the same strategy in [b']limit holdem tournaments). It means you see fewer flops (only when your opponents call, never when you call). It was a long time ago, and it's conceivable that in those days he didn't see himself as one of the favourites ... my impression is that he's not the kind of player to let his ego get in the way of playing what he thinks is his best strategy. And it sounds as though even now he'll call preflop very rarely. Of course, to play this strategy you need to know when to raise and when to fold ... that's the tough part!

Intresting though that in the same book the recommended tactic from Andy Bloch is never raise an early position limper. I agree with Brian (and Slap) this is an excellent book - and not solely limited to NLHE. The Andy Bloch chapter on NLHE is excellent although a couple of the chapters I found poor in particular the Ted Forrest and Howard Ledererer NLHE chapters - although Ted Forrest on Razz was very informative.

[GaF]

Re: Harrington on Cash I thought the Lederer(er sic :tongue2) chapter on Leverage was pretty good (though not groundbreaking) :ok Havent got past the Ted Forest chapter yet - another half read book :sad

[slapdash]

Re: Harrington on Cash

Intresting though that in the same book the recommended tactic from Andy Bloch is never raise an early position limper.

I don't think he said "never", did he? I remember him saying that the BB should very rarely raise a limp from the SB, but maybe that's not what you're talking about? I should reread it.

The Andy Bloch chapter on NLHE is excellent although a couple of the chapters I found poor in particular the Ted Forrest and Howard Ledererer NLHE chapters - although Ted Forrest on Razz was very informative.

I agree about the Ted Forrest NLHE chapter (haven't read the razz chapter yet). But it may be because he's more of a "feel" player than the "intellectual" authors (Bloch, Ferguson, Lederer), so it's harder for him to give precise reasons for what he does. I thought Lederer was OK, though (but not the best chapter): it helped me crystallize some vague ideas I had.

[voiceofjoe]

Re: Harrington on Cash

I don't think he said "never", did he? I remember him saying that the BB should very rarely raise a limp from the SB, but maybe that's not what you're talking about? I should reread it.

True - his words are 'more likely'.... but goes on to say 'The best way to punish them is to limp yourself'. He then goes on [for you] to encourage limpers and liberally play hands lke 7-6s 7-5s and maybe folding off-suit Ace Rag. (Pages 76-77)