GaF Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Just been watching stoxpoker video, Pot Limit Omaha High Low..... $1/$2 blinds - Hero is dealt 8dQcTcJh in the Small blind 2 Limpers - Cut Off +1 (Stack $246) and Cut Off(Stack $208) Hero (Stack $190) completes BB ($193) Checks Four players see a flop of: QdKh9d BINGO!! Hero has the nut high and there is no low possible... Hero, first to act, bets the pot, $8 BB and CO+1 call Cut Off min raises to $16!!!! Hero folds, putting raiser on TJ as well (split pot) but with a diamond or Full House draw....... I don't know the game very well, but that seems one hell of a lay down to me!!! (I dont think he has any specific reads on that opponent) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staffy Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Re: Are you good enough to fold the nuts? Seems a bizaare lay down to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppie Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Re: Are you good enough to fold the nuts? Especially for $8 more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobbin Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Re: Are you good enough to fold the nuts? Must be a mis-click.....:unsure....or 1 hell of laydown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share Posted January 15, 2008 Re: Are you good enough to fold the nuts? No - he's talking through it - it's deliberate.....he's certain his opponent has TJ and thinks he probably has draws which he doesnt .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Intensity Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Re: Are you good enough to fold the nuts? That's really weird - don't think I'll ever make that play, even if the cards were turned over:lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhornet Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Re: Are you good enough to fold the nuts? You might as well see the turn card for $8. If that bought a flush or a full house, then slow down the betting. Seems a tad too cautious to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Re: Are you good enough to fold the nuts? It's difficult hand to play as he's out of position. If he calls he needs to bet on the turn if the board doesn't pair or a diamond comes to protect his hand but if the guy does have 10 J and a better draw he's gonna reraise him. There's 17 cards that could show on the turn to put him behind (any diamond or the board pairing) I don't mind the laydown. Position is even more important in omaha than holdem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Re: Are you good enough to fold the nuts? You might as well see the turn card for $8. If that bought a flush or a full house, then slow down the betting. Seems a tad too cautious to me. I suppose the point is that, if he's right about his opponent's hand, he knows he's not just risking another $8 to see the turn. Whatever the turn is, he's not going to become favourite, and his opponent will probably make another bet. He basically has to decide now whether it's worth calling the $8 and whatever bet his opponent makes on the turn, because if he's going to fold to the turn bet, he might as well fold now and save $8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhornet Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Re: Are you good enough to fold the nuts? I suppose the point is that, if he's right about his opponent's hand, he knows he's not just risking another $8 to see the turn. Whatever the turn is, he's not going to become favourite, and his opponent will probably make another bet. He basically has to decide now whether it's worth calling the $8 and whatever bet his opponent makes on the turn, because if he's going to fold to the turn bet, he might as well fold now and save $8. Absolutely Slap. If the guy does have flush and/or full house potential, then it is a brilliant fold. My point was that he cannot know for certain. A flop of KQ9 holds potential for a whole raft of high hands, he cannot say for certain that he holds two diamonds and an TJ. Just my humble thoughts!!:\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubermonkey1 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Re: Are you good enough to fold the nuts? i have laid down similar hands vs multiple opponents but not vs one player and i think i would have at least seen the turn card in this instance. amazing as it may seem i wouldnt be pushing the pot that hard on the flop with the nuts.this is because i dont have any higher outs and that is always dangerous as you quite often come up against the nuts +higher outs. with this hand somebody could have the 10 j + flush draw +trips on the flop or the 10 j + an ace + the flush draw. either way they have enough outs to be a scary proposition with no higher outs yourself so i wouldnt want to be playing a big pot in bad position. as this is a cash game its pretty daft pushing a lot into this pot with this hand. the only callers you get will either fold if they dont hit on the turn so not really getting a lot for the hand or they will have a monster and you can get seriously shafted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodger Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Re: Are you good enough to fold the nuts? Didn't respond to this when posted up as wasn't sure. But today played a Hi low game and had some crap like 6789 rainbow on BB with no raisers. Flop came 7 10 J, with 2 diamonds and one player bet the pot. I hardly hesitated and folded. As soon as I folded I remembered that this play was posted on here. So often I used to go with these bets and get took to the cleaners when outdrawn. Even if not outdrawn then you're more than likely getting a split pot. The risk just isn't worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Intensity Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Re: Are you good enough to fold the nuts? Didn't respond to this when posted up as wasn't sure. But today played a Hi low game and had some crap like 6789 rainbow on BB with no raisers. Flop came 7 10 J, with 2 diamonds and one player bet the pot. I hardly hesitated and folded. As soon as I folded I remembered that this play was posted on here. So often I used to go with these bets and get took to the cleaners when outdrawn. Even if not outdrawn then you're more than likely getting a split pot. The risk just isn't worth it. Very different with the possibility (probability) of a low too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubermonkey1 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Re: Are you good enough to fold the nuts? right heres almost the same situation bar the fact i have the overall nut straight and i play it as i said above . luckily i dont get outdrawn and the other guy with ak gets a flush draw on the turn :eekbut doesnt hit on the river:Dany big bets on the flop or turn i am out ,luckily it stays pretty calm till the river. PokerStars Game #14765349317: Tournament #74849117, $6.00+$0.50 Omaha Hi/Lo Pot Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2008/01/23 - 11:50:57 (ET) Table '74849117 1' 9-max Seat #9 is the button Seat 1: uberpl (1410 in chips) Seat 2: ollie5057 (1130 in chips) Seat 3: antcon (1430 in chips) Seat 4: HDbets (3190 in chips) Seat 5: omar3868 (1515 in chips) Seat 6: whatpoker (1540 in chips) Seat 7: Ewayputa (1820 in chips) Seat 9: maslim (1465 in chips) uberpl: posts small blind 15 ollie5057: posts big blind 30 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to uberpl [9s 2h As Kd] antcon: folds HDbets: folds omar3868: calls 30 whatpoker: calls 30 Ewayputa: calls 30 maslim: calls 30 uberpl: calls 15 ollie5057: checks *** FLOP *** [Qh Jd Th] uberpl: checks ollie5057: checks omar3868: bets 30 whatpoker: calls 30 Ewayputa: calls 30 maslim: calls 30 uberpl: calls 30 ollie5057: folds *** TURN *** [Qh Jd Th] [3d] uberpl: checks omar3868: checks whatpoker: bets 90 Ewayputa: calls 90 maslim: folds uberpl: calls 90 omar3868: folds *** RIVER *** [Qh Jd Th 3d] [6c] uberpl: bets 300 whatpoker: raises 300 to 600 Ewayputa: folds uberpl: calls 300 *** SHOW DOWN *** whatpoker: shows [Ad Kc 4d 8h] (HI: a straight, Ten to Ace) uberpl: shows [9s 2h As Kd] (HI: a straight, Ten to Ace) uberpl collected 900 from pot whatpoker collected 900 from pot No low hand qualified Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 Re: Are you good enough to fold the nuts? I dont think you need to be looking for an excuse to fold the nuts :unsure The example in post 1, he bets out with a pot sized bet, but folds to the reraise with a flush draw on the board - whereas you've check called the flop and turn - you're inviting a runner runner outdraw :unsure I dont know a lot about Omaha, but your situation does seem to me to have significant differences (mostly in the way you played the flop) - seems wayyyy too passive... :unsure Your opponent has shown no strength... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Re: Are you good enough to fold the nuts? With ubers hand he has position and I'd pop the pot on the flop and the turn and why is there no allin on the end when you have the nut straight with no possible flushes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubermonkey1 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Re: Are you good enough to fold the nuts? trouble with this hand is if i push on the flop the other guy will probably push then i'm fooked and cant really call as with your example at the top. also i will probably make less unless somebody has the nut flush draw or top set ,any other hand they would fold and i would lose out on my 300 odd chips i won. here i am more likely to pick up a nice pot vs top 2 pair or a set if we get to the river with no flush so its part disguise part safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubermonkey1 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Re: Are you good enough to fold the nuts? With ubers hand he has position and I'd pop the pot on the flop and the turn and why is there no allin on the end when you have the nut straight with no possible flushes? was sure he was on ak :okoh and i was sb so no position Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Re: Are you good enough to fold the nuts? OOps yeah sry mate my eyes are failing me. I would have led out more though and then check called the turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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