silverun Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 I could be wrong what do you think? nice little tournament lots of PL'ers play it We have reached the final table and are on the bubble two are in danger the first in danger calls all in with 625 the second in danger and small blind folds his 300 so BB who has already put his blind of 600 and is well clear of danger FOLDS it would have cost him 25 to see a pot worth 1525 the second one is now in dire straights and soon goes out any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Re: Collusion or just helping a friend? It is either extremely bad play (or lack of concentration) or collusion - I'd be reporting it to the poker room for investigation (without any real confidence of anything being done)... I do hope it wasn't 2 PL'rs :unsure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiant23 Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Re: Collusion or just helping a friend? I agree with Gaf? here totally. I do click auto fold on occasion when I expect my blind to be stolen and have no interest in playing the cards I've been dealt and don't want to tempt myself but in this above situation I'd have to wait until the short stacks have acted before I make my play. Even if I had 23os the call is a no-brainer and the person pushing would understand that. Like Gaf I hope it wasn't 2 PLers. :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Re: Collusion or just helping a friend? Obviously, if the BB folded in order to help the first player, that's very wrong. It seems hard to believe that the BB consciously decided that folding was his best play, so I don't think it was premeditated bad play. But it's certainly possible that the BB was just being careless. He may have had a crap hand, noticed he was raised, but wasn't paying attention to the size of the raise and just auto-folded. There's no way of knowing, just from one incident, but it's worth reporting it in case the player involved has "previous". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Re: Collusion or just helping a friend? But it's certainly possible that the BB was just being careless. He may have had a crap hand, noticed he was raised, but wasn't paying attention to the size of the raise and just auto-folded. I know if multitabling I could make that error - I sometimes spot myself folding an unraised BB :$ But getting towards the later stages of a tourney, I try and focus a bit more on that table.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Re: Collusion or just helping a friend? I wouldn't be too happy if I saw this kind of situation on a table, and if it was 2 PLers I'd report the instance on this forum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teaulc Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Re: Collusion or just helping a friend? I could be wrong what do you think? nice little tournament lots of PL'ers play it We have reached the final table and are on the bubble two are in danger the first in danger calls all in with 625 the second in danger and small blind folds his 300 so BB who has already put his blind of 600 and is well clear of danger FOLDS it would have cost him 25 to see a pot worth 1525 the second one is now in dire straights and soon goes out also you should have said silver that you were the other player any thoughts? this was me in danger and all in,,the other guy is called eggster and got timed out with a dodgy connection,he was also out of the next 3 hands and the blinds were 300/600 so the blinds are gonna hurt him too. if you are gonna post something like this get all the facts out at the same time,he came back on in an irate rant cos of it and said he had his chat blocked cos of his language.. i hope you are not accusing me and eggster of collusion cos there wasn`t any also silver was the other player who was on the sb and soon went out,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhornet Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Re: Collusion or just helping a friend? It is considerably more likely to be lack of concentration than collusion, but as the guys have said above, it is worth reporting to the site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philossify Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Re: Collusion or just helping a friend? I could be wrong what do you think? nice little tournament lots of PL'ers play it We have reached the final table and are on the bubble two are in danger the first in danger calls all in with 625 the second in danger and small blind folds his 300 so BB who has already put his blind of 600 and is well clear of danger FOLDS it would have cost him 25 to see a pot worth 1525 the second one is now in dire straights and soon goes out any thoughts? I've occasionally done this on occassion, especially when multi-tabling and using the "check/fold" button too incautiously - many the time I've missed out from collecting from sitouts cos of this. I now conciously try never to check the buttons unless I'm absolutely sure. From teaulc's explanation it was just one of those things that happen with bad connexions and the like. Whenever I'm playing PLrs, whilst giving them their often due respect, I never play to keep them in. In fact quite the opposite, I want PLrs out of the game as usually they are generally tougher opposition than most and if I leave them in they'll probably bite me later. :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Re: Collusion or just helping a friend? this was me in danger and all in,,the other guy is called eggster and got timed out with a dodgy connection,he was also out of the next 3 hands and the blinds were 300/600 so the blinds are gonna hurt him too. if you are gonna post something like this get all the facts out at the same time,he came back on in an irate rant cos of it and said he had his chat blocked cos of his language.. i hope you are not accusing me and eggster of collusion cos there wasn`t any also silver was the other player who was on the sb and soon went out,, The post by Silver, was I think fair - he kept names out of it, so you know the comments are peoples thoughts on what happened, rather than judgements on people... I presume eggster isn't anyone you know? (that makes quite a difference) If anyone did anything wrong, it was him and not you.... If I was silver, I'd probably still report it and hope the poker room investigate it (they can tell what has happened to someones connection in some circumstances - even if you are not doing anything, your client still "talks" to their server)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Re: Collusion or just helping a friend? I presume eggster isn't anyone you know? (that makes quite a difference) If anyone did anything wrong, it was him and not you.... I've just googled him - I see you and him are mods on the same forum - sorry Al, it REALLY doesn't look good (no accusations - just telling you how it looks!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teaulc Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Re: Collusion or just helping a friend? I've just googled him - I see you and him are mods on the same forum - sorry Al' date=' it REALLY doesn't look good (no accusations - just telling you how it looks!!)[/quote'] of which i am friends with about 20 others playing on the site as well, am i being lambasted now ???? a bit unfair i think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Re: Collusion or just helping a friend? of which i am friends with about 20 others playing on the site as well, am i being lambasted now ???? a bit unfair i think No - there is nothing you have done wrong. It is looking, at the very least, possible that eggster folded to help you though (over which you had no control) - it is possible he did, it is possible he didn't - we dont have enough data to judge - which is why it should be reported to the poker room to investigate, who possibly do have enough data to make a judgement. If it is the poker room that sponsor you though, then it should be escalated straight to the network for their independant investigation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppie Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Re: Collusion or just helping a friend? Must say i have also pressed autofold when multitabling and also misclicked fold instead of other buttons esp on boss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jomell Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Re: Collusion or just helping a friend? Always worth calling even with 2 3 o/s ;) **** Betfair Poker Hand History for Game 284671047 ***** NL Texas Hold'em $20 Buy-in + $2 Entry Fee, Level:8 Blinds(200/400-25 ante) - Saturday, December 08, 15:09:47 GMT 2007 10 Seats GTD Sat to Daily $16k GTD #115267 Table 1 9-max (Real Money) Seat 4 is the button Total number of active players : 6 Seat 1: Zimini ( 12,051 ) Seat 2: FlyingDoc ( 2,921 ) Seat 3: muppet0 ( 5,530 ) Seat 4: fiveleaves ( 12,592.50 ) Seat 6: TheGatherer ( 939 ) Seat 9: jomell ( 7,318 ) Tourney Level:8 Blinds(200/400-25 ante) Zimini posts ante [25] FlyingDoc posts ante [25] muppet0 posts ante [25] TheGatherer posts ante [25] fiveleaves posts ante [25] jomell posts ante [25] TheGatherer posts small blind [200] jomell posts big blind [400] ** Dealing down cards ** Dealt to jomell [ 2h, 3s ] Zimini folds FlyingDoc folds muppet0 folds fiveleaves folds TheGatherer goes all-in TheGatherer raises to [914] jomell calls [514] ** Showdown ** TheGatherer shows [ Jd, 5d ] jomell shows [ 2h, 3s ] ** Dealing Flop ** [ Tc, 5s, Js ] ** Dealing Turn ** [ As ] ** Dealing River ** [ 9s ] ** Hand Conclusion ** jomell wins 1,978 from main pot with a Flush ************ Game 284671047 ends ************ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Re: Collusion or just helping a friend? Yep defo call Jomell you were getting more than 3/1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Quiet Man Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Re: Collusion or just helping a friend? I could be wrong what do you think? nice little tournament lots of PL'ers play it We have reached the final table and are on the bubble two are in danger the first in danger calls all in with 625 the second in danger and small blind folds his 300 so BB who has already put his blind of 600 and is well clear of danger FOLDS it would have cost him 25 to see a pot worth 1525 the second one is now in dire straights and soon goes out any thoughts? If you take a minute to look at it....it's feckin horrible and I wouldn't be happy if it was costing me!! If it wasn't someone from PL involved we'd be baying for blood....no defence methinks!! TQM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Re: Collusion or just helping a friend? ....no defence methinks!! People can have connection problems, people can misclick...... there are defences..... However if I was in Silverruns position I'd be seething - I'm pretty certain Al would be too if the positions were reversed...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Re: Collusion or just helping a friend? People can have connection problems, people can misclick...... there are defences..... However if I was in Silverruns position I'd be seething - I'm pretty certain Al would be too if the positions were reversed...... Yes, if eggster was just disconnected at an unfortunate time, then obviously nobody did anything wrong, and silverun was just unlucky (though maybe Al would have won the hand anyway). I don't know eggster from Adam, so I have no basis to make a judgement either way. But I agree with GaF that it should be investigated, for the benefit of all involved. Sometimes events conspire to make your actions look suspicious. If I were in eggster's position, I'd want the site to investigate, as there would be at least a chance that they could find something that would dispell any suspicion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Re: Collusion or just helping a friend? But I agree with GaF that it should be investigated, for the benefit of all involved. Sometimes events conspire to make your actions look suspicious. If I were in eggster's position, I'd want the site to investigate, as there would be at least a chance that they could find something that would dispell any suspicion. As I understand it, most Pokerrooms can differentiate between someone who loses their connection and someone who just sits there and watches themselves sit out ..... we just dont know that and only the poker rooms can make that distinction..... How long was eggster sat out? (he was relatively short stacked too?) If it were at least 3 or 4 hands, then I'd be pretty certain it were a genuine disconnection, if it was just that one hand (and maybe one after) it would add to my suspicions a little.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teaulc Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Re: Collusion or just helping a friend? As I understand it, most Pokerrooms can differentiate between someone who loses their connection and someone who just sits there and watches themselves sit out ..... we just dont know that and only the poker rooms can make that distinction..... How long was eggster sat out? (he was relatively short stacked too?) If it were at least 3 or 4 hands, then I'd be pretty certain it were a genuine disconnection, if it was just that one hand (and maybe one after) it would add to my suspicions a little.... he was sat out for 4 hands total as far as i can remember which i did say in earlier post my personal belief is it was just unfortunate and things like this happen all the time,,even i have been the one this has hapened to,not nice but as i said it happens, like on paradise earlier this year,in reverse i know, but i go into the final table as massive chipleader and cant get back in,i get blinded out in 3rd i think,it is upsetting but you get over it cos it happens. eggster is a friend as is silver and a whole load of other players on the site,me and him being mods on another forum is neither here nor there,i back him wholeheartedly for his honesty,as i do all on here.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Re: Collusion or just helping a friend? sounds dodgy to me :lol " type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="355" width="425"> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNeq2Utm0nU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voiceofjoe Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Re: Collusion or just helping a friend? If that had occurred when there was no one else on the table who I knew - and the person I did know had chance to make the money then I'd fold quite happily. If it came back to bite me and I was eliminated on the bubble next round then its my own stupid fault and no-body elses. It can't be collusion, if only one party (i.e Me in the above case) knows what is going to happen. If I knew others at the table then I would play the hand genuinley. Although if ever you see me in a tourney with a large stack then its probably not me playing anyway, and I have probably sold my account to Sorrell 'Imperium' Mizzi ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggster Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 Re: Collusion or just helping a friend? I could be wrong what do you think? nice little tournament lots of PL'ers play it We have reached the final table and are on the bubble two are in danger the first in danger calls all in with 625 the second in danger and small blind folds his 300 so BB who has already put his blind of 600 and is well clear of danger FOLDS it would have cost him 25 to see a pot worth 1525 the second one is now in dire straights and soon goes out any thoughts? Right of reply time. As soon as I heard about this thread I thought I better come on and put the record str8! What actually happened was I was opening PokerLiberation at the same time ready for another game and whilst opening it froze everything for about 1 or 2 minutes. Now anyone who has used PokerLib will know of this side effect to opening site. Secondly to think any collusion involved in a tournament that cost 55cents to buy in as quite frankly insulting and I thought you would have known better, you have been sat at the same table before when me and Alan have eliminated each other. Anybody thinks that any collusion was involved please do not hesitate to contact the pertinent sites and lets get it investigated, no fears from here on that score. Would like to thank the people who offered a possible defence such as mutitabling but no need freeze was real reason, though to be honest :lolmultitabling sounds better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 Re: Collusion or just helping a friend? Nah I'm not having that HANG 'EM BOTH!! :lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverun Posted December 9, 2007 Author Share Posted December 9, 2007 Re: Collusion or just helping a friend? Please note I stated only the observable facts and raised a question for discussion. I purposely did not mentioned player names or tournament name or poker site. I made no personal accusations, have no desire to do so and I am sorry if offence has been taken. I had signed that I was the second player (with sour grapes) but removed that because again did not want to mention names and I did not feel sour about it, I had caused my own downfall earlier. It was only afterwards that I thought that was a strange fold. It was a fun tournament, low value played in a sensible manner I hope it remains that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosco Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 Re: Collusion or just helping a friend? You had a fair point and if the same happened to me I would not be happy. This is in the poker chat part for these kind of discussions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teaulc Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 Re: Collusion or just helping a friend? i for one hold no grievances and no reason to have anyway,it happens and i was the lucky one (makes a change;)). it is a fun game and i hope it stays that way, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voiceofjoe Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 Re: Collusion or just helping a friend? This is in the poker chat part for these kind of discussions. And the thread was worth it if only to see the 'Monty Python' - Blasphemy Sketch :clap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 Re: Collusion or just helping a friend? And the thread was worth it if only to see the 'Monty Python' - Blasphemy Sketch :clap did you say Jehovah then :unsure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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