Brilliant lay down or wimpy fold?

[happyhornet]

Last nights GUKPT Poker Player freeroll. About an hour in, I am doing ok, have about 3500 chips. The blinds are 100/200 at this point: UTG (1600 chips) Raises to 650 Mid position (4000 chips) calls SB (me with JJ) calls BB (500 chips) goes all-in Should i have re-raised here? In hindsight maybe I should. Flop comes down 2d 2c 7c I check (no I don't know why either!!) UTG goes all in for 950 Mid position re-raises to 1500 I laid the hand down, fearing that I was up against a real monster. It still left me with an above average chip stack. 1. Please analyse the play to this point. I do have trouble with these kinds of hands. Unless I hit a set, in the face of an aggressive raise, i am often at a loss as to how to play it. 2. Would you have laid the hand down? Will post the actual outcome of the hand later. Steve

[Valiant23]

Re: Brilliant lay down or wimpy fold? 1. Please analyse the play to this point. I do have trouble with these kinds of hands. Unless I hit a set, in the face of an aggressive raise, i am often at a loss as to how to play it. As I see it you're behind to 7 hands (not counting 22) and the action suggests that the mid. position, with his isolation re-raise, has one of them, but he could also have A7, 88, 99, TT or a flush draw. 2. Would you have laid the hand down? Personally in this situation with JJ I'd probably get my chips in the middle here, dependant on my read of the mid position player. If you thought he was a tight player then I can understand and agree with the fold, but if he was one who played suited rags or any Ace then I'd take a shot at him.

[glceud]

Re: Brilliant lay down or wimpy fold? I think the payout stucture here is important, its basically a winner takes all tourney so I would have pushed. You have to gamble to win these things. In a normal payout structure it would require a lot more thought and maybe a fold would be correct

[robilaruk]

Re: Brilliant lay down or wimpy fold? I don't like the call PF, you are investing a sixth of your chip stack at this point - there is enough in the middle for me to shove PF and hope to get shorty HU. I can understand your call in case MP has AA-QQ and you hope to hit a set and get paid, but you are leaving yourself open to all sorts of flops that can stil get all your money in, and not knowing if you are ahead or not a 3 flush with a J 10 9 8 giving you an OESD or J with A and/or K and/or Q where you hit your set and might still get beat personally I prefer to make my decision easy - I would shove PF - however if I had 10K in chips I would probably just call and hope to hit my set, as the percentage of my stack to call is a lot less (about 5%) as you played it, I would also probably lay it down, you don't want to be gambling now with a paired flush drawing board just my thoughts Damo

Last nights GUKPT Poker Player freeroll. About an hour in, I am doing ok, have about 3500 chips. The blinds are 100/200 at this point: UTG (1600 chips) Raises to 650 Mid position (4000 chips) calls SB (me with JJ) calls BB (500 chips) goes all-in Should i have re-raised here? In hindsight maybe I should. Flop comes down 2d 2c 7c I check (no I don't know why either!!) UTG goes all in for 950 Mid position re-raises to 1500 I laid the hand down, fearing that I was up against a real monster. It still left me with an above average chip stack. 1. Please analyse the play to this point. I do have trouble with these kinds of hands. Unless I hit a set, in the face of an aggressive raise, i am often at a loss as to how to play it. 2. Would you have laid the hand down? Will post the actual outcome of the hand later. Steve

[Valiant23]

Re: Brilliant lay down or wimpy fold? Something occurred to me as I read these replies. :loon HH, why did you play the hand? It's not a trick question, I promise. :ok

[Guppie]

Re: Brilliant lay down or wimpy fold? Against plers i would lay it down quicker than lightning Otherwise i'd shove them in

[happyhornet]

Re: Brilliant lay down or wimpy fold? Thanks, as always, guys for your responses.:ok The outcome of the hand was that the turn river came 8d 6h. The BB scooped the main pot when his 62 made a full house. UTG had AKo, mid had 99, so I would have won the side pot.:wall Glceud, you make a superb point, with the payout only going as far down as 10th, I should have shoved and hoped for the best. Mr V. It's a valid point in the face of a raise and a call when out of position. The truth is probably that I am not a good enough player to lay down JJ in this position. It was another 550 into a pot of 1600 (probably 1900 as BB almost had to call with any two cards). Realisitically, I should have pushed or folded. Is that where you are coming from?

[glceud]

Re: Brilliant lay down or wimpy fold? Problem even more so with these tourneys in that the 2nd to 10th place prizes are just entrys into another tourny were only the top 3% get paid.

[Valiant23]

Re: Brilliant lay down or wimpy fold?

Mr V. It's a valid point in the face of a raise and a call when out of position. The truth is probably that I am not a good enough player to lay down JJ in this position. It was another 550 into a pot of 1600 (probably 1900 as BB almost had to call with any two cards). Realisitically, I should have pushed or folded. Is that where you are coming from?

Not entirely my point mate, no. So you're saying you played it cos it was a pocket pair. Right, fair enough. :ok Next question is, what did you want on the flop? With some hands such as AA its quite an easier answer. (Rainbow flop, no straight possibilities with maybe an Ace and a King to catch the AK caller). If I'm in your shoes I'll probably play JJ as you did. Now then post flop. If my hand improves its up to me to maximize its potential and get paid off. If there are scare cards then I'll probably drop them in the face of action. If I have an overpair then I'll take a chance of doubling up or busting (which, most players have to do at some point). Obviously the above are dependent on reads but I think its important to be decisive in your intention, and then disciplined in your implementation in these kinds of situations. :ok

[happyhornet]

Re: Brilliant lay down or wimpy fold? Got you mate:ok. Correct, pre-flop, I called because it was JJ. 99 and under, i'd probably have folded, AA/KK I re-raise, my trouble hands (10/10 to QQ), I call, rightly or not. Post-flop, I have to take the bull by the horns, and if I'm up against trips or a bigger pair, then that is life! Thanks for your help:ok