GaF Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 We've tried to be creative with the Virgin Scotland game this month. We've tried to put in place a fun structure, that gives all kinds of players a shot at a nice prize. We have also tried to do it in a way that will help make it a commercial success for Virgin (I don't think we should shy away from that, or be embarrassed by it - the main reasoning is that we want to be able to go forward offering bigger and better prizes, as well as fun and competitive tournaments - that benefits all of us!!!) Overall I'm quite happy with the way this has been done for the virgin tourney. I think we've found the right mix..... But I'm also interested in what others think - and, more importantly, what kind of things you'd like to see in the future (whether with Virgin, or others) - generally the poker rooms are happy for us to do it as we wish, within the budget they offer, we're only limited by our own creativity - the success (or not) determines whether they want to give us (you) more money again in the future - so it's in our own interests to have a structure that works for the poker companies too ...... So come on - give us your ideas and we'll see what we can do :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norfolk Enchance Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Re: What promo's do you like? Not much feedback in here :unsure First I will say any added money or packages you can get are obviously great. I'm probably going to be in the minority here but I would like to see bigger buy ins for PL events. I haven't played any PL games for ages simply because they haven't attracted me. It seems that they only cater for freerollers or people who are only prepared to buy in for a few dollars. Why not a range of buy ins for the PL tournys instead of always catering for the same players? Are there no players here prepared to play at a higher buy in level? Just having a look now. You have the betonbet $1000 added which is great but the individual games are only $2 to enter which is fine if you're just learning. I play to make money though as well as the enjoyment and I'm not prepared to play if my expected earnings per hour are just a few dollars. Similarly the sporting odds one costs $1. The Virgin one I have to admit I haven't had chance to look at in detail. It seems to me a lot to go through though for a 1 in 20 chance (maybe slightly less in some cases) of a £1400 prize of which only 40% is really yours! I like the concept of PL members having a stake in the winner but I think the spread is a bit too much. I'd prefer to see, say, 75% for the winner and then 25% distributed to the other 9. Would it not also be true that the poker companies would be more prepared to offer the added $$$ if the buy ins for the actual tournaments were higher? It seems logical that the more they get from PL players in rake/entry fees the more they would be prepared to give for promotions. Just to clarify I am not saying all the PL tournaments should have a high buy in but it would be nice to have some $25, $50 or $100 events now and again along with the smaller buy ins for the lower stake players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Re: What promo's do you like? Post of the day NE :ok couldn't have put it better myself But TBH it has been an on and off argument for the last 12 months or so. I have missed a lot of PL leagues recently (Mr V says it is because I out classed ) but its the ROI/hour that interest me more these days and when you are limited to when you play you want to maximise that time. The argument against would be if we had bigger buy in tourney there will be very few entries. I dont know if that is true would it attract more sharks to the site and is that a bad thing?? The Scottish promo is interesting but is it worth the time and effort for the 40%? I like the idea of the spread of equity but maybe it has gone too far to make it appealing to me when I could just buy into the final for $200 and try and qualify that way for 100% equity. Keep em coming GaF as always you are doing a great job:ok:ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Puntalot Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Re: What promo's do you like? Some good points here and they have to be noted of course. I'll talk to the poker mods and see what we can do on a higher buyin tourny and carry that on into the future. :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Re: What promo's do you like? I'll talk to the poker mods quote] Paul can you talk to the poker gods for me please..I cant win a double shootout to save my life :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted May 14, 2007 Author Share Posted May 14, 2007 Re: What promo's do you like? Do you remember the Virgin WSOP and VPoints added we had last year? Overall it was about $10,000 added - so we had a larger buy in - $10 IIRC and numbers plummeted - to be honest it was an embarrassment!!! At the same time we had the $1 game at SO (about $300 added IIRC) and that was getting more than double the number of entries. I'd love to see higher buy in games, but they're not popular, and they're not supported :unsure For the Virgin scotland, the overall prize is about $2800 - with 20 runners in the final, each MTT seat is worth about $140. So, for example, each Friday MTT with a buy in of $10+$1 has $140 added (ignoring the extra seat for the League - which I suppose takes the added value to $175) - the games so far have had less than 30 runners. I accept the comment on the equity split, and will look at it closely if we have the chance to do something similar again - I didn't view it as an issue, but clearly it is for some. My view was that, although only having 40% in themselves, the winner was also getting the chance to play a tourney with a buy in greater than £1000 .... it's the experience as much as the potential prize money isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norfolk Enchance Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Re: What promo's do you like? Do you remember the Virgin WSOP and VPoints added we had last year? Yeah, I came 2nd just missing the WSOP seat :( Think that was probably the last time I played a PL tournament. As for why people preferred paying $1 to enter the SO one to $10 to enter the Virgin one I have no idea. It makes no sense as the Virgin one was amazing value and I thought a $10 buy in was actually way too low. The SO one was simply not worth playing in my eyes unless you are new to the game or play solely for fun. I'd love to see higher buy in games, but they're not popular, and they're not supported :unsure I'll take your word for it GaF as you probably know the members of this forum better than anyone. I can't remember there ever being a high buy in PL game though. Btw, its good that you are asking what the members want and for feedback on the promo's. Hopefully a few more people will have an opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Re: What promo's do you like? I think we have moved on from then GaF. Yes I remember that one well and at the time was amazed how few entered. Now there seems to be more members and if you take the laddies league which is a $440 outlay, a lot of members have seen the value in that and entered whereas this time last year a lot would not of considered it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweetypie05 Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 Re: What promo's do you like? I agree that higher level buy-ins would be good for some people. For others not so... which is why currently the leagues that get more entries are low level as they offer value at an affordable price. A mix is good but representation may not be so good at the higher buy-ins. Occassionally, I would like to buy-in at a slightly higher level if it was a one-off but cannot afford to play this consistently over a period of time and cannot always make every game and so lose out there too. I would like to see weekly/monthly 1-off tournaments. This could be at various buy-in levels (NL Holdem) over the year and even different formats i.e. omaha, razz etc. as I would like to dabble in other formats to try them out. Some added value from the site, like tickets to other tournaments, and all password protected. Also, how about team games? This was done before... that way if you're not able to make all games it could be done on rotation, team subs etc. Not sure this is what you're after though... :\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhornet Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 Re: What promo's do you like? I agree with Tweety on the point that a $20 League format would see a significant drop in numbers as opposed to the current $1-$3 ones. I, for one, could not justify a layout of $80/$100 for one league. Equally, there are a lot of guys on here for whom that is their average level of play, hence not seeing them in too many Focus games. I like this Virgin promo. It's different, well thought out ( though I agree with a higher %age to the guy who actually plays in Scotland), and offers a number of different ways in to most levels of play/buy-in. I would probably play in a $10 tournament on a weekly/bi-weekly basis if it was a focus game, maybe if we found a good added value one somewhere (non PL-exclusive) we could see a higher number of participants in the Focus game. Anyway, I am beginning to ramble:$ . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 Re: What promo's do you like? I'd just like to say as a newbie to the forum that the higher buyin tournies are the ones which would interest me $10 being the min, but this just my preference:ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobbin Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 Re: What promo's do you like? Fairly new to the forum...But I have enjoyed the promotions so far(only played in the BetonBet $1000 added)and they are decent value... I do think keeping the buy ins to $5 and under is a good idea ,so everybody has a chance to play in them,but I do agree there should be some higher ones but will the higher buy ins be supported like the lower buy ins.:eek Overall the promotions I have seen on the forum have had some good value to them,:ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kippe6 Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 Re: What promo's do you like? ur never going to keep the big players and the penny players happy all at the same time,people who make a living out of poker will not come down to small stakes and small stakes players cant go up because usually they dont play well because its scared money.ive not been with the forum long but like what ur doing in the differant leagues [ although i dont understand the focus league ] everybody seems to get on so y change it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voiceofjoe Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 Re: What promo's do you like? I do think keeping the buy ins to $5 and under is a good idea ' date='so everybody has a chance to play in them,but I do agree there should be some higher ones but will the higher buy ins be supported like the lower buy ins.:eek [/quote'] The higher buy-ins will never be supported the same as the lower buy ins, and I class myself definitely in the lower buy-in range. But I do think that by promoting higher buy-in competitions you would attract some new blood to the site, which would hopefully lead to better insights etc for all of us as they contribute to discussion, and strategy in the other forums.(aka Mole does at the moment) Also it would maybe possible to combine the 2 levels in some way. Maybe a lower level league that acted as a 'Satellite' to a prize that would be more easily achievable through success in a Higher Buy In league If that makes sense :eyes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 Re: What promo's do you like? From a personal point of view, I'd also prefer higher buy-in promotions. But we have to be realistic about what the poker sites can expect to get out of it. Typically, I'm pretty sure that what they make from buy-ins to the PL events is a rather small proportion of the added value that they give. For example, if we have a 5-week league of $2+$0.20 tournaments with an average of 40 PLers taking part, they make $40 from tournament fees, whereas the added value they give is typically a few hundred dollars. So I think that if we had a higher buy-in promotion, it would be unrealistic to expect the poker sites to increase the added value proportionally. Which I think means the added value would have to be spread more thinly so that it didn't seem rather insignificant: if you play a five tournament league for $20 a go, and come fifth overall to get an extra $20, that doesn't really mean much to you, probably. I think VoJ's suggestion is worth thinking about. If we occasionally had a league to earn places in a smaller event with a higher buy-in, which we could also buy into directly, with most of the added value in the "final", would the $2 players go for that? I don't really know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norfolk Enchance Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 Re: What promo's do you like? So I think that if we had a higher buy-in promotion, it would be unrealistic to expect the poker sites to increase the added value proportionally. Which I think means the added value would have to be spread more thinly so that it didn't seem rather insignificant: if you play a five tournament league for $20 a go, and come fifth overall to get an extra $20, that doesn't really mean much to you, probably. I wouldn't expect the added value to increase proportionally but I would expect it to increase. As for the extra $20 I wouldn't be doing cartwheels but it would be a nice bonus. The main issue for me is that the individual games are worth playing, any added value would just be a nice bonus. I think VOJ's idea is an excellent one. Certainly worth considering anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spireitedaz Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 Re: What promo's do you like? How about either having a) separate leagues for freerolls, $1, $2, $5, $10 & $20 tournaments or having certain nights being a certain value buy in ie Sunday - freeroll V points Monday - $1 etc With say 1 X $10, 1 X $5, 2 X $2, 1 X $1 and 2 freerolls per week. This would be a total cost of $20 (approx £10) I must admit I have played more satellites since joining the forum, but its finding the right ones. Some satellites give you entry to bigger tournaments which are rebuy tournaments, which to me defeats the object of entering the satellite in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted May 16, 2007 Author Share Posted May 16, 2007 Re: What promo's do you like? I think that high stakes players hold more value for poker rooms - what PL does for poker rooms is persuade groups of people to try a room and deposit there .... they almost always make a loss on the tournament, whith a view to recouping it (and more) through other (additional) games (especially cash) that the players choose to play there as a result. Naturally high stakes players should generate more rake over their lifetime as a customer than lower stakes players ...... Mr V has been bouncing some ideas off me by PM - he has some good ideas, which I'm sure he'll elaborate on when he's ready :ok I quite like the idea, if we have $1000 added - say like the BetonBet league - of having a one off game at the end with say a $50 buy in and $500 added. Also having 10 x Sats to this with a buy in of $5 (one seat for every $50 in the pot) AND one seat added to each sat (which accounts for the other $500). Of course this removes the league element totally, but it does give added value to low stakes and higher stakes players. Of course, the "problem" is that it is only one game for the higher stakes players, rather than a series ..... I think Mr V likes a similar idea, but with a longer build up period (and more added) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msaban Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 Re: What promo's do you like? Just to very briefly add my 2 pennies worth. Enjoy the lower limit leagues ( when time permits to commit to them ) and have dpeosited on a number of sites in the past that I probably wouldnt have, to play on them.( SPOdds, Betfred are a couple of examples). Would also enjoy to play in the one offs higher entry / value games - depending on site choice. VOJ's idea is a good idea, could see that working. I think a place in a decent live event is my ideal prize, through the leagues etc. I think GAF, Paul and the other mods do an excellent job, to get these opportunities for PL, even if I dont take them all up, and am generally happy on your decisions on our behalf - thanks. Cheers :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiant23 Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 Re: What promo's do you like? I had a couple of ideas last night. One which I like the idea of in principle is impossible in practical terms but I too suggested having a higher buy in tourney with satellites for the low rollers. However I think that players may then turn around and say why pay $50 for a PL game when I can pay $100 for the Mansion $100k Guaranteed. Another idea I had was we could have 3 or 4 high buy-in's a year and run satellites to them but as well as having sponsorship from a poker site we could have MKoP style prizes as well. So I suppose my question (aimed at the higher stake players) would be; If we had a $50 tourney with satellites would you buy in or try and win your seat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morlspin Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 Re: What promo's do you like? If we had a $50 tourney with satellites would you buy in or try and win your seat? Both mate!:ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted May 16, 2007 Author Share Posted May 16, 2007 Re: What promo's do you like? So I suppose my question (aimed at the higher stake players) would be; If we had a $50 tourney with satellites would you buy in or try and win your seat? That's a good question!! The likes of Morl and I who would do both, would also play low stakes buy in games in their own right.......so that doesn't "add" anything..... What we need to know is if there is anyone who doesn't play the low buy in games who would play a $50 PL buy in game..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norfolk Enchance Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 Re: What promo's do you like? If we had a $50 tourney with satellites would you buy in or try and win your seat? For $50 I would just buy in and not bother with the sats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crouch Potato Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 Re: What promo's do you like? I wouldn't mind some sort of tournament leaderboard, SnG's + MTTs combined. Would generate more revenue for the poker room as the SnG aspect would have much more fees generated (like the Virgin Frenzy) and you could award points for higher buy in so that people can play at their level and still be in contention for the end prize. Maybe award half the added money to the leaderboard winners and have the other half put into a STT tournament for the top 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted May 17, 2007 Author Share Posted May 17, 2007 Re: What promo's do you like? The "danger" with STT leaderboards is that they just turn into a bit of a grind (just ask damatrix and morl ;) ) - that's why I kept the Virgin ones to 24 hours ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnley Joe Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 Re: What promo's do you like? Hi Have thought about what has been said and i have an idea, although may be hard to organise What if we had a weekly buy in on whatever network and say there was 50 players, this would give a fund of $500 We play for 40 weeks which would give an overall prize fund of $20K Each week only half of the money is paid out, so $250 to top 10, which would be $10K over 40 weeks The other $10K, would then give the top 10 players at the end of the 40 weeks a $1000 buy in at a $1K event at WSOP08 all playing wearing PL gear? Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiant23 Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 Re: What promo's do you like? Feck me its 6 o clock! :loon I really like this idea a lot Joe! :clap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morlspin Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 Re: What promo's do you like? To go with Joe's great idea why dont we do a savings club too, £10 a week, makes you £520 which should pay for your flights and a few nights accom for vegas wsop? Even if you dont win a buy in, or dont want to pay, you still have the experience of wsop in vegas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColU_FC Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 Re: What promo's do you like? why dont we do a savings club too We'll call it Fairpak. :rollin :rollin :rollin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msaban Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 Re: What promo's do you like? I really like this idea a lot Joe! :clap Me too, n1 BJ. Morls has a good idea too, but maybe a little bit difficult to manage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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