slapdash Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 Heads-up NL Hold'em with $1/$2 blinds and equal sized stacks. You're small blind. However: (a) You are only allowed to fold or go all-in. (b) You know that if you go all-in, BB will only call with pocket aces. OK, if the stack sizes are very large ($10,000, say), you should only jam with pocket aces, as otherwise your opponent will win so much from the infrequent hands where he does have AA that it more than makes up for losing the blinds on the other hands. If the stack sizes are small ($5, say), you should always jam, as you only lose $5 when your opponent has AA and wins, but much more frequently (when he doesn't have AA) you win the blinds of $3. So as you gradually reduce the stack size, you should gradually add more hands that you jam with. As you do this: (A) Which is the first hand you should add to pocket aces? (B) And the next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 Re: Puzzle: jam or fold game A) 65s B) 76s I think :unsure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted April 28, 2007 Author Share Posted April 28, 2007 Re: Puzzle: jam or fold game No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 Re: Puzzle: jam or fold game No. bah!!! Am I close? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted April 28, 2007 Author Share Posted April 28, 2007 Re: Puzzle: jam or fold game bah!!! Am I close? Hmmm? Well, there's something you've probably missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimany Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 Re: Puzzle: jam or fold game Haven't understood fully, I think, but surely (a)KK & (b)QQ/AK no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted April 28, 2007 Author Share Posted April 28, 2007 Re: Puzzle: jam or fold game No. Remember, when BB calls you, he will have AA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavham Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 Re: Puzzle: jam or fold game 78s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavham Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 Re: Puzzle: jam or fold game b) 10 j s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted April 28, 2007 Author Share Posted April 28, 2007 Re: Puzzle: jam or fold game A) 65s B) 76s 78s No. It's true that hands like this do best heads-up against pocket aces, but that's not quite what the question is ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhornet Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 Re: Puzzle: jam or fold game Without resorting to odds calculators and so forth, if you are going heads up against AA, what would be the difference whether you had 87s or 65s?:unsure Following on from this (probably flawed) logic, would you not want suited connectors between 65s and 10/9s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted April 28, 2007 Author Share Posted April 28, 2007 Re: Puzzle: jam or fold game Without resorting to odds calculators and so forth' date=' if you are going heads up against AA, what would be the difference whether you had 87s or 65s?:unsure [/quote'] There's a very slight difference: If you have 87 and the board is something like 88555, then you win, but if you have 65 and the board is 66888 then you lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave488 Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 Re: Puzzle: jam or fold game Thought i would put a few off these into poker stove to see what it came up with. The first percentage is for a different suit to the aces, the second sharing a suit. 45s = 21.649% = 20.538% 56s = 23.056% = 21.942% 67s = 23.033% = 21.917% 78s = 23.021% = 21.906% 89s = 22.623% = 21.496% 910s = 22.765% = 21.643% 10Js = 21.717% = 20.604% So i would say 65s too, but am obviously missing something in the question, come on slapdash gives us a clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glceud Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 Re: Puzzle: jam or fold game Me and Valiant know the answer and perhaps one or two other. GaF I'm suprised considering the ammount you play that you dont Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted April 28, 2007 Author Share Posted April 28, 2007 Re: Puzzle: jam or fold game come on slapdash gives us a clue. OK. The clue is: The question didn't ask which hand was most likely to beat your opponent if he has pocket aces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave488 Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 Re: Puzzle: jam or fold game Have thought about this again, i would say that it is more about the stack size and about when it is correct to jam with an two cards, knowing you will only be called with aces. Assuming aces are 220-1 and you are picking up the blinds every other time, i.e increasing you stack by $2, would it make sense that you will make more from stealing the blinds that he will when he calls with aces every 220 hands, of which he will only win roughly 80% of the time. 220*$2 = $440 + 20% = $528 So i would say that as long as your stack is less than $528 you will make money jamming with every hand in the long run.:ok Now then time for you to pick holes in my theory slapdash, and tell me i'm totally wrong!:hope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimany Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 Re: Puzzle: jam or fold game No. Remember' date=' when BB calls you, he [b']will have AA. Apologies, thought you meant the other player. The answer is 7/8 then 6/7, both suited in a suit which either ace isn't. The reason it is not 8/9 is if the board is T-Q-J then a K will give the AA a higher straight, similarly with T/J the AA reduces straight possibilities Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 Re: Puzzle: jam or fold game Bah!!!!! I dont get it!!! The question didn't ask which hand was most likely to beat your opponent if he has pocket aces. IF your opponent doesn't have pocket aces then he folds, so it doesn't matter what you have, you win the hand. If your opponent calls, then he has AA, so what hand do you want to play against AA with? But that's not the question? :cry :cry :cry I dont geddit!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted April 28, 2007 Author Share Posted April 28, 2007 Re: Puzzle: jam or fold game OK, another clue: Assuming aces are 220-1 Ah! But are they? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 Re: Puzzle: jam or fold game OK, another clue: Ah! But are they? ;) It's not Heads Up? :unsure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 Re: Puzzle: jam or fold game Me and Valiant know the answer and perhaps one or two other. GaF I'm suprised considering the ammount you play that you dont Smart Arses!!! :tongue2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted April 28, 2007 Author Share Posted April 28, 2007 Re: Puzzle: jam or fold game It's not Heads Up? :unsure Yes, it is heads up. :rollin Does that make a difference to the odds of him having aces, anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 Re: Puzzle: jam or fold game Yes, it is heads up. :rollin Is one of the players Paul Daniels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave488 Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 Re: Puzzle: jam or fold game Heads-up NL Hold'em with $1/$2 blinds and equal sized stacks. It is heads up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted April 28, 2007 Author Share Posted April 28, 2007 Re: Puzzle: jam or fold game Is one of the players Paul Daniels? God, I hope not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 Re: Puzzle: jam or fold game Does that make a difference to the odds of him having aces, anyway? Multiple opponents would increase the cahnces of AA being out there..... But I THINK I geddit!!!! AKs? Then AQs? If you have an A, then your opponent is less likely to have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave488 Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 Re: Puzzle: jam or fold game Ah, i see. a) a10s b ajs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted April 28, 2007 Author Share Posted April 28, 2007 Re: Puzzle: jam or fold game Multiple opponents would increase the cahnces of AA being out there..... But I THINK I geddit!!!! AKs? Then AQs? If you have an A, then your opponent is less likely to have? In fact it's A10s followed (very closely) by A5s. Yes, with these hands you're more likely to lose than with 87s, etc. IF your opponent has AA and calls. BUT he's only half as likely to have AA (because you have one), which more than makes up for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted April 28, 2007 Author Share Posted April 28, 2007 Re: Puzzle: jam or fold game Got that from here (probably not to everybody's taste!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted April 28, 2007 Author Share Posted April 28, 2007 Re: Puzzle: jam or fold game More interesting is if the BB can freely choose whether or not to call (but SB still has either to jam or fold). It gets much more interesting and some quite bizarre things happen. For example, if the stacks are huge, then SB should still only jam with AA. When they get down to about $1666.50, his optimal strategy is to jam with A10s as well. But when they get down to about $1666, less than a dollar smaller, his optimal strategy is to jam whenever he has AA or A5s, but only to jam with A10s a little over 25% of the time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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