FatBoyFat Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 I've started back on the cash games, 4 tabling the $50 buy-ins on laddies. I'm running ok and the level is definintely beatable, although probably not by the 16BB/100 I was beating the $20 buy-in for. However I've been stacked a couple of times with AA and want to make sure I am not overplaying the bullets. The first time was all-in on the flop vs KK when he had flopped top set; I am less worried about this one as it was vs. a maniac whose raise looked like a blind steal and his range included many more hands than KK. The other time, included below, was against a solid winning player (VPIP - 30% & PFR 7%) tends to be a bit loose but doesn't overcommit his chips too easily. I've included some of my thought processes but let me know what you think :- ** Game ID 735576918 starting - 2007-04-23 22:07:37 ** Granite [Hold 'em] (0.25|0.50 No Limit - Cash Game) Real Money - sniperone sitting in seat 1 with $51.53 - gergong2 sitting in seat 2 with $28.50 - briggy67 sitting in seat 3 with $49.50 - cvendel sitting in seat 4 with $65.42 - Mad_Fer_It sitting in seat 5 with $50.43 - SAM1966 sitting in seat 6 with $18.02 - PoIuYtReWq sitting in seat 7 with $63.27 [Dealer] - siggesagge sitting in seat 9 with $57.75 - Concussed sitting in seat 10 with $24.71 siggesagge posted the small blind - $0.25 Concussed posted the big blind - $0.50 briggy67 posted to play - $0.50 ** Dealing card to Mad_Fer_It: Ace of Clubs, Ace of Spades sniperone folded gergong2 folded briggy67 checked cvendel raised - $2.00 Mad_Fer_It raised - $3.50 The villain standard raised to 4BB in EP, so even though he has a PFR of 7% I think 90%+ of the time he has a decent hand. I min raise to $3.50 for a couple of reasons. Firstly, there is less action at this level, and an open push or RR is unlikely to get action. I also think $3.50 to go will still put me heads up with the villain, unless someone behind me walks into a hand and then I would consider the push vs. 2 opponents (if the villain had called the raise as well). What do you think of this min raise? SAM1966 folded PoIuYtReWq folded siggesagge folded Concussed folded briggy67 folded cvendel raised - $8.00 Mad_Fer_It called - $8.00 Now the RR by the villain wasn't supposed to happen. In terms of the informal poker story I had told the villain I had a hand and he had replied by saying, I know you have a hand but I have a hand as well. I was putting him on KK here, thinking he wouldn't call with QQ downwards or AK, AQ. The fact that he raised indicated to me that he didn't have a speculative hand that he wanted to catch a set with and stack me. I thought he had a big hand also. The call was because of my read. Thinking I would get away from the flop if a K hit. I was looking to stack him here. With hindsight should I have got it all in and took the pot down now? ** Dealing the flop: 5 of Clubs, Jack of Spades, Queen of Clubs cvendel bet - $8.62 Mad_Fer_It called - $8.62 This flop didn't worry me too much as I didn't think he'd raise it up to $8 PF with QQ or JJ. Plus, if he did flop top or middle set I would expect him to check to me. I was still convinced on KK and therefore didn't raise the flop. I also had the Ac so I knew he wasn't drawing to the nut flush. ** Dealing the turn: 10 of Clubs cvendel went all-in - $48.80 Mad_Fer_It went all-in - $33.81 Whilst this made the flush and a straight draw I thought the all-in screamed of KK. I could have been ahead already and had 9 draws to the nut flush and a K would have filled the A high straight. I called here thinking I was ahead, or that on the balance of probabilities, the call had +ve EV in the long run. ** Dealing the river: Jack of Diamonds cvendel shows: Ace of Hearts, King of Spades Mad_Fer_It mucks: Ace of Clubs, Ace of Spades cvendel wins $99.11 from the main pot End of game 735576918 Too passive on the flop? Could I have got away from it on the turn? Thoughts welcome. FBF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 Re: Cash Game : Overplaying AA I don't like the min raise - what other hands do you min raise with? For me that always stinks of a monster and sets the alarm bells ringing.... He is also right to call with any two cards - you're not giving him the chance to make a mistake..... When he reraised you, I'd rereraise - WANTING him to call, but making sure he overpays too!!! The flop comes - you still only have 1 pair ..... slow playing it again is unnecessary - if you think you are ahead, make him pay to draw (even if he is only drawing to two kings!!) I think you played it too slow pre and post flop..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiant23 Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 Re: Cash Game : Overplaying AA Honestly, ** Dealing the flop: 5 of Clubs, Jack of Spades, Queen of Clubs cvendel bet - $8.62 Mad_Fer_It called - $8.62 This is what I will do when I am playing a draw aggressively. I set the price and hope the person with the better hand allows me. The fact is that whether or not what I do is bad play if I'm allowed then it is bad play by the opponent (in this case its you - sorry). If you had re raised him here then you may have taken it down OR maybe gotten a call, which would have been bad play gotten lucky by him. Of course the question is, did you want to win a small pot or gamble a little and take his stack? If the answer is the latter then (I think) that is the play of a tournament player, as I will slow down with AA or similar if I need or want a double through. Just my thoughts mate and certainly not the best advice you'll receive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 Re: Cash Game : Overplaying AA Good point there Valiant it does look like the play of a tournament player trying to try milk AA for all its worth. Getting all your money in after the flop with just one pair is always risky and in your case you made it on the turn which is worse. In all fairness you did say you put him on a specific hand but as you found out this is very costly when you're wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatBoyFat Posted April 25, 2007 Author Share Posted April 25, 2007 Re: Cash Game : Overplaying AA Good points lads, I wasn't particularly proud of the way I played the hand and just wanted some confirmation. I think I got too attached to putting hime on KK. I think a big RR to his RR PF or a raise on the flop would have been the better play. FBF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Re: Cash Game : Overplaying AA I'd push to his reraise to $8 preflop. At this stage I put him on a good hand, but know i'm ahead, mostly liklely by a larger amount, I think AA is 80/20 vs KK or AK ?? Your ahead, either take the pot down, or make a bet with good odds. Too passive for me, great call on his all-in, shame you got shafted on teh river, but overall too passive, he set the agenda throughout the hand, you just responded. At no point did you ask this guy a serious question, in the entire hand you raised just once, a min raise preflop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimany Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Re: Cash Game : Overplaying AA Too passive for me' date=' great call on his all-in, shame you got shafted on teh river[/quote'] He had the straight on the turn mate. FBF was only drawing to a K for a split/club for a win. Agree that you played it way too passive also. I don't like the minraise but when he reraises I'm loving it. With a raise & reraise preflop, I don't think this guy's going anywhere, make it $20/30 and lets see if he pushes again :) You're playing an aggressive player, play his own game back at him. Hopefully he'll get defensive and try to push you off it & now you can take his stack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavham Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Re: Cash Game : Overplaying AA ***** Hand 599612807 ***** 25.00/50.00 Texas Hold'em (No Limit ) - 25 April 2007 18:11:21 Table TH 585 (Real /Cash Game ) Seat 1: AirSoprano (2295.00) Seat 2: the mole (6117.98) Seat 3: Jofa (11652.79) Seat 4: PingZen (4925.00) Seat 5: Khaal-Lee (8120.35) Jofa post SB 25.00 PingZen post BB 50.00 ** Deal ** AirSoprano [N/A, N/A] the mole [As, Ah] Jofa [N/A, N/A] PingZen [N/A, N/A] Khaal-Lee [N/A, N/A] *** Bet Round 1 *** Khaal-Lee Raise to 200.00 AirSoprano Call 200.00 the mole Raise to 750.00 Jofa Fold PingZen Fold Khaal-Lee Call 750.00 AirSoprano All-in 2295.00 the mole All-in 6117.98 Khaal-Lee Fold *** Flop(Board): *** : [Jc, Ks, 9s] *** Turn(Board): *** : [Jc, Ks, 9s, 5h] *** River(Board): *** : [Jc, Ks, 9s, 5h, 6d] sometimes it doesnt matter what you do. *** Showdown *** : Rake: 3.00 Total Pot: 5412.00 AirSoprano [Jd, Js] Three of a kind, jacks Win: 5412.00 the mole [As, Ah] Pair of aces Win: 0.00 Jofa Fold Win: 0.00 PingZen Fold Win: 0.00 Khaal-Lee Fold Win: 0.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavham Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Re: Cash Game : Overplaying AA ***** Hand 599623539 ***** 25.00/50.00 Texas Hold'em (No Limit ) - 25 April 2007 18:23:25 Table TH 585 (Real /Cash Game ) Seat 1: Pokergirl_ (4925.00) Seat 2: the mole (3835.98) Seat 3: Jofa (23004.14) Seat 4: PingZen (6594.00) Seat 5: Khaal-Lee (4872.00) the mole post SB 25.00 Jofa post BB 50.00 ** Deal ** Pokergirl_ [N/A, N/A] the mole [Ac, Ad] Jofa [N/A, N/A] PingZen [N/A, N/A] Khaal-Lee [N/A, N/A] *** Bet Round 1 *** PingZen Fold Khaal-Lee Raise to 200.00 Pokergirl_ Fold the mole Call 200.00 Jofa Raise to 700.00 Khaal-Lee Call 700.00 the mole All-in 3835.98 Jofa Call 3835.98 Khaal-Lee Fold *** Flop(Board): *** : [10s, 4d, 3h] *** Turn(Board): *** : [10s, 4d, 3h, 2c] *** River(Board): *** : [10s, 4d, 3h, 2c, 8h] *** Showdown *** : Rake: 3.00 Total Pot: 8368.96 Pokergirl_ Fold Win: 0.00 the mole [Ac, Ad] Pair of aces Win: 8368.96 Jofa Fold Win: 0.00 PingZen Fold Win: 0.00 Khaal-Lee Fold Win: 0.00 these were 2 hands i had in the same session Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavham Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Re: Cash Game : Overplaying AA the thing is when you have AA your aim is to get all in as soon as possible before you are faced with a decision. you are always favourite pre flop so if you can get them in. this is all about knowing the players you are playing against and as i have shown above some you win some you dont. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimany Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Re: Cash Game : Overplaying AA the thing is when you have AA your aim is to get all in as soon as possible before you are faced with a decision. you are always favourite pre flop so if you can get them in. this is all about knowing the players you are playing against and as i have shown above some you win some you dont. Well said mole, couldn't have put it better myself Those are some high stakes btw :loon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robilaruk Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 Re: Cash Game : Overplaying AA I personally don't like the min re-raise as it prices him in with his 88 etc, I would always make it at least twice his raise (winning a small pot is better than losing a big one!) if I read this right he then re-re-raises you? if so I am shoving there is $15 in the pot (if my maths are correct) which is 1/3 of your stack, so get your cash in - he says I have said he has a good hand, you raise and say mine is better and he then says mine is even better and reraise you - so get you cash in the middle now! your play: if your read is KK and he bets here I would still raise (probably shove) you have TP with a back door flush draw, if he has hit a set of Q or J you are going broke anyway on the turn when he shoves (as he should), so put the pressure on him and don't let him suck out on you with his KK as you didn't you left yourself with a tricky call on the turn, you have top pair on a scary board with a flush draw for comfort - would still probably call with the 9 outs you have, an Ace nails you if he has KK, so you need a club only to be sure yes, you were too passive PF and flop Damo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.