AJ in the SB

[Valiant23]

Just gone out of the Betfair MKoP in the following fashion. Feel free to criticise or console (yeah right). Player A: BB Player B(me):SB Player C:button I have AJ os and it folds round to the button who puts in a pot sized raise. I re-raise. BB re-re-raises Button folds and I call. Flop comes J, x, x, and he bets pot, to which I go all in. He calls in an instant and shows KK. Fair enough and good luck to him as I've already qualified. However, should I have dropped to the re-re-raise and assumed I was behind or was I right to play on the assumption that he is defending his BB? Bear in mind that there are 6 cards in play and I believe at least 2 of them to be rubbish (the button), and I could reasonably put the BB on AK or AQ - even a small pocket pair at a push. Honest opinions please as I have more trouble playing these kinds of hands out of the blinds than anything else.

[SteveO]

Re: AJ in the SB I would have folded from the sb with AJ. I hate playing it in position never mind out of position. When the BB reraised it had to be a big hand could have been AK. By calling the reraise you were destined to go broke on that flop :spank .

[Pocket Lady]

Re: AJ in the SB Eek - I would have played this the same, as I would have seen the raises as holding onto the bb.

[AJ]

Re: AJ in the SB Yeah, I'd have folded to the first raise as well. You have very bad position with a marginal hand.

[GaF]

Re: AJ in the SB Same for me - the error was pre flop (though easy one to fall into, and cant be sure I wouldn't have done the same .... then regretted it)

[Dodger]

Re: AJ in the SB :tongue2 Hey, take no notice of this lot...you did the right thing...how the hell else am I going to qualify without such generous help from my fellow PLers???:tongue2

[voiceofjoe]

Re: AJ in the SB I presume from the time of the post the blinds where very small at this point, and you weren't under pressure with the stack size Then to the button raise i'm folding - IMO AJo is a marginal holding - especially from SB, I'd probably raise with it in good position,but not call a raise. (I think Sklansky called it the Gap Concept)

[Nade]

Re: AJ in the SB I suppose it's easy to say from my PoV but i would have laid down after the re-re-raise not least because i categorise AJ os in the 'devil hand' (my own term) category as well as Q10 because they might look good but i barely ever win with them. Your next warning sign is the pot raise on the flop so if the re-re raise makes you think you're behind then i think that bet is the clincher. However, i can understand your reasoning for going for it if you were already through so didn't have so much to lose :ok

[Valiant23]

Re: AJ in the SB Thanks for the comments so far, although I'd like to add that having qualified already had no bearing on the way I played. I wanted to try and cash in again. I should have dropped to the re-raise though especially to a respected player like Dodger. :lol ;)

[Dodger]

Re: AJ in the SB Sorry Valiant, but I threw it all away. 9 10 on BB I called a 2.5 x BB raise and saw the flop of 9 10 K. Thought I had him by the short and curlies and followed him all the way down the line...the bugger had K 10. Ah well...next time maybe.

[Valiant23]

Re: AJ in the SB :sad :sad :sad

[robilaruk]

Re: AJ in the SB quote: I could reasonably put the BB on AK or AQ - even a small pocket pair at a push. all of which you are behind to:eek :eyes :eek :eyes :eek the only play option PF IMO if you believe him to have something like AQ or 88 etc is to re-re-re-reraise shove and hope he folds believing that you have AA KK AK etc (am guessing here as I don't know stack sizes so the shove might still get 'his' AQ/88 etc to call due to pot commitment) can't blame you on the flop - if he has AK/AQ you are ahead Damo

[robilaruk]

Re: AJ in the SB indeed you need a better hand to call with after a raise according to Slansky however, the BTN raising range might be pretty huge here - and as demonstrated he folded. I see no problem with reraising in the SB with AJ (at the appropropraite moment during the tounry - i.e not first hand etc), or even smooth calling and playing a stop 'n' go on the flop for those commenting on folding - what kind of hand will you defend your blind with? you have to make a stand or they will all be raising you every time - by making the stand now, you show people that will a raise from late position, that you are prepared to play back at them, and I don't see AJ as a marginal hand from a LP raise at all just my thoughts Damo

. (I think Sklansky called it the Gap Concept)

[Jimany]

Re: AJ in the SB

indeed you need a better hand to call with after a raise according to Slansky however, the BTN raising range might be pretty huge here - and as demonstrated he folded. I see no problem with reraising in the SB with AJ (at the appropropraite moment during the tounry - i.e not first hand etc), or even smooth calling and playing a stop 'n' go on the flop for those commenting on folding - what kind of hand will you defend your blind with? you have to make a stand or they will all be raising you every time - by making the stand now, you show people that will a raise from late position, that you are prepared to play back at them, and I don't see AJ as a marginal hand from a LP raise at all just my thoughts Damo

Sklansky is a great player & poker theorist and I agree with him completely here (Wouldn't mind if he was on the forum to reply himself hehe :nana) I agree that the Btn raise may be a number of hands here, but it's early in the tournament & I don't see a need to take it on, especially OOP. The smooth call is an option, but can get you into a lot of trouble as shown how the hand played out. 2 scenario's to ponder over; Flat call - J-x-x on the flop, you check - he bets - you raise - he reraises, now what? Flat call - J-x-x on the flop, you bet - he raises, now what? Seems an impossible situation with TPTK to let it go at this stage... With regards to defending your blinds; you are only the SB here. I was playing the PokerSatellites freeroll last night and Slick Mick was on my right in the SB, folded around to him and he mucked also. Made a little joke asking if he could do that all night & he replied with "SB is only a tax mate". He's hit the nail right on the head. IMO AJ is a terrible hand, way overrated & tends to lose you more money than you make.

you have to make a stand or they will all be raising you every time

Personally I like my blinds being raised from day 1, everytime, especially starting early on. If you stay patient & respect the raises, it won't be long before you get a monster in the blinds & since the blinds are continually increasing; 1 reraise with a monster should make you all your lost chips back without even seeing a flop.

[SteveO]

Re: AJ in the SB "SB is only a tax mate". Never a truer word said. I think players get carried away with the need to defend their blinds especially early on in tournaments. Defending with AJ from the sb is just asking for trouble as Valiant soon found out. Last night late on the MKOP tourny Burnley Joe kept getting his BB stolen so he decided to call a min raise with k5 os. The flop came xKx guy bet and Burnley Joe pushed to which the other guy called with AA, but he went on to hit a 5 on the river and doubled through. Now there was still plenty of play left at this stage BurnleyJoe had about 20 bb left. Now this is just another example of how you can easliy put your entire tourny on the line when defending blinds with marginal hands. It paid off for Joe but overall its gonna be a losing play.

[Valiant23]

Re: AJ in the SB and to be fair to Joe, the blinds were pretty big at that time. Unlike in my scenario. For me, this is a state of mind play and I'll use this thread to help me. I say state of mind play because I can and should be passive in the blinds, but only when I have the correct frame of mind. This is something we should perhaps all pay attention to and something I can do when my head is screwed on. Criticism is deserved and appreciated. :ok

[robilaruk]

Re: AJ in the SB if the blinds are small, you just call the BTN raise and see the flop and take it from there - in this case after a re-raise from the BB I would muck if the BB just calls I would always bet out on a JXX flop and if reraised significantly would need to consider my options as to whether I call. I wouldn't check raise here if the BTN bets, unless it looks like a really weak cont bet, because he might actually have a hand and you are in stuck (esp with the BB still to act) - I would prefer to bet and force both of them to the test, not the other way around as others have said AJ early on is nice, but not something you want to go bust with, but later in the game you really do want to play it hard PF, so I would play it how I said in my earlier post. Cheers Damo

and to be fair to Joe, the blinds were pretty big at that time. Unlike in my scenario.