Analyze This

[happyhornet]

Hi Guys, I suffered my biggest loss in one hand on a cash table on Friday night, and still cannot decide if I played the hand badly, was just unlucky, or a combination of the two. I can't find the hand history, but this is what happened. $0.10/$0.25 NL Table 10 players, I have about $23, the villain of this piece has about $35 and has been aggressive much of the time. In middle position dealt Kd 10d. Under the gun limps in, i follow, as do the button and BB. Flop comes Ad Qd 4d. UTG raises the minimum, I flat call, so does the button, the BB folds. (I don't normally slow play, but i had the nuts, and wanted to give people time to catch up) Turn is Ah UTG checks. I bet the pot, the button flat calls, UTG folds (I bet here to both disguise my flush, and also if someone had an ace, not to give them another cheap card to make a boat. The flat call from the button put him on an Ace in my mind) River is 6d I bet $5, the button reraises to $18, I call. He turns over As Qc for a full house. Even on the river, I still put him on three aces, but in hindsight should I have seen the re-raise as a sign of a full house as there was 4 diamonds on the board, and made a well judged fold? Any advice here would be most welcome.

[Valiant23]

Re: Analyze This

(I don't normally slow play, but i had the nuts, and wanted to give people time to catch up)

In tournaments you're playing people for their whole stacks and this may be a reasonable play to amass chips. But. Why slow-play here? If you equate the nuts as a hand thats as good as it gets this is exactly the same situation as Tom Hedonist with his KK. The advice in there is bet big. The reason? You want someone to overplay their weaker pocket pair or even AK. and it is exactly the same here. If yuou had pushed all in for your stack or a pot and a half raise you would have got your money in when you were ahead. You see it is entirely likely that Mr. Agression was slow-playing you and giving you the chance to catch up on the flop, so had you reacted aggressively he would have thought he'd hooked you. Another thing, I'm guessing Mr. Agression also showed less agression with his AQ suited than he did with weaker hands, too. You maybe took that as a sign of weakness but that always sends alarm bells ringing with me. Remember, get your money in when you KNOW you're ahead. Very unlucky all the same though.

[GaF]

Re: Analyze This I think it was just pretty unlucky ...... I don't mind the slow play too much .... a FH is the only holding that has any real chance of beating you at showdown ......... so as you say, give people a chance to catch up a bit...... (I know Mr V compares it to Tom Hedonists KK but for me, you are that much stronger, with just 2 cards to come, that it isn't comparable....) The paired board has to be a concern and so I think you were right to bet the turn and river ..... very tough to get away from I think..... Helps if you post the Hand History - that way you can be sure we have the relevent info, that you haven't "misremembered" any of the hand details (poker players are extremely prone to that ;-) ) and it is easier to work out things like how big the pot is when you bet into it.....

[viggosen]

Re: Analyze This I agree with Valiant here, not only because you risc run into a full house, that happens pretty rarely. More because if someone is sitting with a weak ace, the flop is your best chance to get the money in, I you raise now, they might think you are on a draw with a single big diamont, and call or raise, if you call and another diamont comes everybody will asume that someone has the flush and nobody will be willing to put much more money in. Even if a diamont doN´t comes on turn, if someone raises and you call or reraises they know whats going on.

[Valiant23]

Re: Analyze This Just to add. I did take into consideration the fact that this was in a cash game, where I thought more aggression was required when you hit.

[happyhornet]

Re: Analyze This Thanks for the comments guys:clap . Not entirely sure I agree with Mr V/viggo's wanting to put in a big raise on the flop, but if we all played the same way, it would be as boring as hell!!

[GaF]

Re: Analyze This TO back Mr V/Viggo up a bit .... in general it is definitely a mistake to slow play too often, and it is a mistake that a lot of people make .... they fall into the routine of betting when they have nothing and checking when they have a hand ...... so you play big pots with nothing and small pots with big hands - that cannot be right...... the reason I think that a slow play here was more acceptable than normal was because you were so very strong in this specific instance ...... I wouldn't advocate slow playing too often though.......

[Valiant23]

Re: Analyze This Cheers gaf? But what you say means that slow playing here is what anyone who has the flush would do, yeah? Don't the pro's argue that betting out here is the right thing to do purely because it looks more like a bluff? :unsure

[happyhornet]

Re: Analyze This Sorry Mr V, I should have clarified my disagreement. :$ Under normal circs, you are unquestionably right, slow-playing is a huge mistake. My thoughts were in this situation (given the 15 seconds or so I have to make a choice) that if I made a large raise, who is going to call it? Someone with 2 diamonds probably would, AQ, A4, but not much else! I didnt believe for one second I could lose this hand. The board needed to pair AND someone needed to hold AQ or A4 (or Q4). Consequently, giving my opponents the chance to make a second best hand seemed to me to best bet.