jomell Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6264387.stm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiant23 Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Re: Does luck or skill make poker ace? I once won the same nightly tournament 4 times in one week. In each tournament there were approx. 120 players. Is it right that the probability of me doing that is equal to 120 x 120 x 120 x 120=207,360,000 to 1? I refuse to believe that I am that lucky, or ever was and that skill had a large part to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmuzeman Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Re: Does luck or skill make poker ace? Theres not even a debate, if anyone is actually disputing whether skill plays a part in poker. If skill wasnt a large element of the game then professional players who make money month on month wouldnt exist. Many do, so there it is. It really depends on the timescale, whether luck is deemed a factor or not. If you play 1 heads up game, luck plays a huge part. If you could play an infinite amount of Heads up games, luck plays no part whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Re: Does luck or skill make poker ace? It really depends on the timescale' date=' [/quote'] Absolutely agree 100% :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhornet Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Re: Does luck or skill make poker ace? Isn't the debate more about the reputation of poker than anything else? In almost every game and sport there is a combination of luck and skill. No-one disputes that golf is a game of skill, but any player will tell you about a lucky/unlucky bounce. A deflected own goal in football, a lucky bounce of the ball in rugby, a ball hitting the net and creeping over for a winner in tennis is sheer unadulterated luck, but no-one talks of those games in terms of luck. Poker's reputation (whether we know better or not) is awful, made in the movies, and middle England/America is not ready for it yet. Poker players are viewed as hopeless desparate degenerate gamblers and until that changes we will be on the outside looking in!:sad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgej Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Re: Does luck or skill make poker ace? Even i would have put money on you doing 4 in a row V (for those odds anyway. £2 please... :lol) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Re: Does luck or skill make poker ace? Even i would have put money on you doing 4 in a row V (for those odds anyway. £2 please... :lol) Oi! No after-eventing! :spank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychosi Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Re: Does luck or skill make poker ace? In almost every game and sport there is a combination of luck and skill. No-one disputes that golf is a game of skill' date=' but any player will tell you about a lucky/unlucky bounce. A deflected own goal in football, a lucky bounce of the ball in rugby, a ball hitting the net and creeping over for a winner in tennis is sheer unadulterated luck, but no-one talks of those games in terms of luck.[/quote'] Couldn't agree more. Poker maybe relies on more luck than others but all sport involves luck. Spinning of a coin at cricket is another. Sometimes it is a distinct advantage batting 1st. And thats not lucky!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmal76 Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Re: Does luck or skill make poker ace? if i win its through skill. if i lose its through bad luck.thats the way i see it.:loon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychosi Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Re: Does luck or skill make poker ace? if i win its through skill. if i lose its through bad luck.thats the way i see it.:loon :lol I like that attitude. It goes with the fact that i've just played 2 STT's and won nothing, all bad luck and nothing to do with skill. :loon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philossify Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Re: Does luck or skill make poker ace? Not having followed the Kelly court case in detail I would have thought that he should have had one or more game theorists up there (expert witnesses) trying to show the jury the mathematical skills involved in poker. OK, so luck comes into it, but its just the same luck that comes into something like Bridge for example (much more judge friendly game in all likelihood) and (I think) brige is regarded as a game of skill. In Bridge you often take a view on where particular cards lie in order to optimise your odds of success - not much different to poker where you optimise your chance of winning by playing the cards correctly and by betting correctly. I've never regarded my poker playing as gambling, I see it as me using my (meagre) skills to take money over the long run from less skillful players - albeit less skillful players sometimes hit the luck and beat me. If I don't feel I have a positive advantage (due to skill) then I'm a miserable so and so and don't tend to participate :rollin unless of course the fun involved outweighs some small loss. I hope they are taking it to a higher court in the hopes of getting it reclassified. I'd even be prepared to shove a £5 into an appeal fund if there was one :) . Maybe some poker sites ought to have appeal fund games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Re: Does luck or skill make poker ace? Not having followed the Kelly court case in detail I would have thought that he should have had one or more game theorists up there (expert witnesses) trying to show the jury the mathematical skills involved in poker. OK' date=' so luck comes into it, but its just the same luck that comes into something like Bridge for example (much more judge friendly game in all likelihood) and (I think) brige is regarded as a game of skill. In Bridge you often take a view on where particular cards lie in order to optimise your odds of success - not much different to poker where you optimise your chance of winning by playing the cards correctly and by betting correctly. [/quote'] Agreed. I've actually played a lot more bridge than poker. Almost all tournament bridge is "duplicate", meaning that the same cards are played more than once by different players, and scoring is based on comparing how you did with how other people did with the same cards. This eliminates the luck of getting dealt good cards, but as you say there is still a lot of luck. It's very hard to quantify whether one game involves more luck than another, but if you measure it by looking at how often the better player will win over the course of an evening, I'm pretty sure NLHE cash games involve a lot less luck than non-duplicate bridge (partly because you'll play more hands of poker) and probably a bit more luck than duplicate bridge. Even games like chess involve some luck. When you make a move, you don't predict all the consequences of that move. Ten moves later it might have an unforeseen consequence that's in your favour (lucky) or in your opponent's favour (unlucky). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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