Hole in my game???

[Cloud]

Hi guys/girls I wanna show you a couple of cash hands I've had recently. I'm struggling to see what I'm doing wrong - but I'm losing a lot of money doing it. Advice would be much appreciated. Hand 1 PokerStars Game #7986088610: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2007/01/17 - 15:53:26 (ET) Table 'Umbriel IV' 9-max Seat #1 is the button Seat 1: The Voelks ($35.10 in chips) Seat 2: fredriq ($50 in chips) Seat 3: TYPHOON439 ($36.05 in chips) Seat 4: Varelas ($41.75 in chips) Seat 5: plours12 ($29.50 in chips) Seat 6: USMCRightway ($32.65 in chips) Seat 7: superwandl44 ($37.30 in chips) Seat 8: the_cloud71 ($49.85 in chips) Seat 9: jkpickett ($49.25 in chips) fredriq: posts small blind $0.25 TYPHOON439: posts big blind $0.50 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to the_cloud71 [Ks Kh] Varelas: calls $0.50 plours12: calls $0.50 USMCRightway: calls $0.50 Varelas said, "??" superwandl44: folds fredriq said, "you told me so" the_cloud71: raises $2 to $2.50 (standard raise to get down to 1 opponent hopefully - doesn't actually work) jkpickett: folds The Voelks: folds fredriq: calls $2.25 TYPHOON439: folds Varelas: calls $2 plours12: calls $2 USMCRightway: calls $2 *** FLOP *** [5c 4h Th] (Straight and flush possibilities - want to win it straight away against 4 opponents) fredriq: checks Varelas: checks plours12: checks USMCRightway: checks the_cloud71: bets $15 (Bet out strongly - all shown weakness) fredriq: calls $15 Varelas: calls $15 plours12: calls $15 USMCRightway: folds *** TURN *** [5c 4h Th] [9c] fredriq: bets $32.50 and is all-in Varelas: calls $24.25 and is all-in plours12: calls $12 and is all-in the_cloud71: calls $32.35 and is all-in (I called because there are no straight or flush's made still, and I've got a great hand looking at the board) *** RIVER *** [5c 4h Th 9c] [Jd] *** SHOW DOWN *** fredriq: shows [4s 4d] (three of a kind, Fours) the_cloud71: mucks hand fredriq collected $16.20 from side pot-2 Varelas: shows [Jh 3h] (a pair of Jacks) fredriq collected $36.75 from side pot-1 plours12: mucks hand fredriq collected $118 from main pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot $173.95 Main pot $118. Side pot-1 $36.75. Side pot-2 $16.20. | Rake $3 Board [5c 4h Th 9c Jd] Seat 1: The Voelks (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 2: fredriq (small blind) showed [4s 4d] and won ($170.95) with three of a kind, Fours Seat 3: TYPHOON439 (big blind) folded before Flop Seat 4: Varelas showed [Jh 3h] and lost with a pair of Jacks Seat 5: plours12 mucked [Ah 7h] Seat 6: USMCRightway folded on the Flop Seat 7: superwandl44 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 8: the_cloud71 mucked [Ks Kh] Seat 9: jkpickett folded before Flop (didn't bet) Hand 2 (No hand history - playing on other PC) I'm in small blind - with KK. All fold to button - very aggressive with a big stack. He raises to $1.50 (3 x BB) I re-raise to $3.50 BB calls. Button calls. Flop 2 4 7 Rainbow. I bet $9 BB goes all-in. Button folds. I call (I consider a set, but would anyone call 7XBB raise and reraise with 22,44 or 77 - the only hand that worries me is AA - but any overpair is a possibility) I lose to 44. Again :wall

[mrmuzeman]

Re: Hole in my game??? Ok Cloud, the doctor is in the house. Shit that sounded rubbish :lol Er anyway ill comment as I scroll down your HH... Hand 1 Ok preflop raise should be a bit stronger. 5bb aint the worst preflop bet ive ever seen BUT with 3 limpers to you in low limit net cash games, you really wana bet making that a bigger raise, I wouldnt be suprised if they all call you (if the UTG calls, the others likely will). Make it 7-11bb there and expect 1 caller as wished. You HAVE to bet the flop you are correct and you are thinking about draws correctly. $15 is ok, doesnt do anything $10 doesnt tbh but its neither here nor there. Wow all 3 flatcalled you :lol Err thats sick, youre almost certainly behind. Any more than 1 player flatcalls a BIG flop bet, its always very dodgy, with 3 doing it you are almost certainly behind. Its a key point to remember, any more than 1 caller of a BIG bet and you MUST proceed with caution and be prepared to lay down. They all go all in, well nows the time to fold, all evidence points to that there is better than 1 pair out there, 1 of them must have a set, so you are drawing to 2 outs, not enough to call the 4/1 odds with only 1 river to come. Sick theres the set, had to be though it was spelled out. Theres a reasonable amount you can learn from this hand though there. Basically you could have saved yourself about $30 on this particular hand. Hand 2 Ok well you reraise which is 100% correct BUT I hate the raise. Its little more than a minreraise out of position, dont like it at all. Whenever you make a reraise preflop you should always make it at least 3X the original raise imo. So in this instance I would make it between $4.50 and $6.50. Get some decent amount of BB in right now to form a big pot on the flop hopefully. Ok total raggy offsuit board, not an action board for you unfortunately but every single right to believe you are infront still of course. You should bet here and hope 1 of 3 things. He has picked up top pair or a straight draw. He has an overpair (or 66, 55 is ok), an overpair is great though and a lot of players will reraise and do their cash against you here. Or he reraises you on total air. How much to bet? You actually overbet the pot very slightly here, not a problem just a little weird but doesnt really matter. As long as you bet anywhere 1/2 pot and upwards youre ok here. Im calling every time to the all in, A LOT of the time you will see the situations I described above and youll double through. Id expect to see 88, 99 1010 a lot there. This time he has a set, wouldnt usually be the case at all so nothing wrong with the call there at all, its a very profitable call in the long run for sure.

I call (I consider a set, but would anyone call 7XBB raise and reraise with 22,44 or 77 - the only hand that worries me is AA - but any overpair is a possibility)

Btw nothing wrong with his call at all, it was only another 4bb to him id call everytime with any pocket pair there as long as the stacks are relatively deep. Any way mate, hope that helps.

[Cloud]

Re: Hole in my game??? Cheers Muzeman - that does help a lot. Two pretty difficult hands - but I could/should have come out of them without losing a lot on both. Incidentally, on the second hand - the small raise was intended to draw the aggressive big stack into the hand, whilst still building the pot slightly (I knew he would call a small raise) - and not price him out of it. I did want him in the hand - with me holding KK. Although I'm guessing just a call might have been better if I wanted to take him on.

[mrmuzeman]

Re: Hole in my game???

Incidentally, on the second hand - the small raise was intended to draw the aggressive big stack into the hand, whilst still building the pot slightly (I knew he would call a small raise) - and not price him out of it. I did want him in the hand - with me holding KK.

Yeah I do understand that. I was talking about in general mostly but still I think youll find so often people will call fat preflop raises, theres no need to draw people in as it were. Also if theres any good players on your table theyll notice this. I get suspicious as fcuk about people reraising the minimum. It really spells out AA or KK to me and you wana try and avoid spelling your hand out like that prefloppo if poss. Lets say someone hits top pair as well on the flop, say a Q or J here against you. You pot it to them and now ANY raise they may make will be a much bigger one purely because you got more in there preflop. Betting larger preflop with the goods just makes it easier to form big pots which is the aim of the game.

[GaF]

Re: Hole in my game??? I think that what these two hands really show is the value of implied odds, and show why it is right (and very profitable) to limp pre flop with mid to low pairs. It's very hard to get away from and most internet players wont!!! You're less than 8-1 to flop trips - if (on average) you can get more than 8x what you put in, then it is a profitable proposition. Because you're so likely to get paid off, you should easily make this a profitable proposition (just make sure you dont put any more money in the pot if you dont hit trips). In Hand 1, you can see Villain ended up getting over 50x what he had to put into the pot - so he got 5x more than what he needs to get on average to make this profitable..... In High M situations (tournament or cash) I now very seldom lay down any pair pre flop......

[Cloud]

Re: Hole in my game??? Cheers Muze and Gaf, I have always tended to shy away from small poker pairs if faced with a raise - but I tried playing a whole different way today - and it paid off nicely (well it would have if I hadn't suffered a two-outer bad beat on the river, which made the difference between a huge profit and breaking even - I'd made a set, up against KK, and the third king hit on the river when all-in after the flop). And it also meant I played a lot more hands - got more of a reputation as a loose player - and therefore the good hands I got also got paid - which looks like a win-win to me. I guess I was playing too tight - and even worse I was expecting my opponents to do the same.

[GaF]

Re: Hole in my game??? Yep - a raise pre flop wont scare me off from a small pair if my opponents stacks are big enough and I believe there is a good chance that they will pay me off - even a tight player raising who it seems pretty clear has something like AA or KK I'll call with the likes of 44. If it comes down trips over trips, that's just unlucky and you're destined to lose your stack - but you'll make enough on the hands that dont do that to make up for that loss :ok

[Cloud]

Re: Hole in my game??? I know it's early doors - but I've made 3 $25 buyins profit on the day. Two of those came from playing small pocket pairs (3's and 6's), and hitting with an Ace on the board. I have suddenly gone from tight /aggressive - to aggressive/tight :clap

[Cloud]

Re: Hole in my game??? Thought I'd give a follow up to this thread. Since changing my game, it has been fantastic. In the last 9 days or so, I have made at least a buy-in every day (apart from yesterday - tiny loss) - and have had my most profitable week since I started playing - and I rounded it off about 10 minutes ago with my biggest ever pot win - which has had me bouncing off the walls. Cheers Guys :clap :clap :clap

[robilaruk]

Re: Hole in my game??? I agree make it 10BB at least - you will get called by the small PP, but you are ahead so make them pay Damo

Ok Cloud, the doctor is in the house. Shit that sounded rubbish :lol Er anyway ill comment as I scroll down your HH... Hand 1 Ok preflop raise should be a bit stronger. 5bb aint the worst preflop bet ive ever seen BUT with 3 limpers to you in low limit net cash games, you really wana bet making that a bigger raise, I wouldnt be suprised if they all call you (if the UTG calls, the others likely will). Make it 7-11bb there and expect 1 caller as wished.

[mrmuzeman]

Re: Hole in my game??? Nice one Cloud. Come down the Big Slick poker club and toke me a tip as a mark of gratitude :ok