GaF Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bubbles Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 Re: Player Analysis Here is my 2 pence. All very interesting, it strikes me the player you have looked at is a solid player and as such will be hard to make large profits off even if you do idenity a small weakness. Instead I would use the poker traker to identiy all the weak or inconsistant players and then when you play the cash games search for a table with one of these playing and clear up from there hopefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 1, 2007 Author Share Posted January 1, 2007 Re: Player Analysis Yes, agree totally Mr B :ok The problem with losing players is that they dont stick around so much!!!! Next player I "pick on" will be a different category :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robilaruk Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 Re: Player Analysis a calling station fish, not someone who knows how to play Damo So back to the original question - any thoughts/ideas on what else I should be looking for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 1, 2007 Author Share Posted January 1, 2007 Re: Player Analysis Ok - Player 2 ..... autocategory is slightly loose, passive pre flop, passive post flop (Mini Fish) - more like it? Summary - he's played 468 hands. He has a VP$inP of 29%. His aggression factor is 0.87 (interestingly 4.25 on the river). He is losing at the rate of 12.38 BB/100 Hands. Pre flop raise is 1.92% Position wise - his biggest loss is on the Button :loon :loon Hehe - just spotted a PL'r is currently playing against him ;-) Just off to watch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 1, 2007 Author Share Posted January 1, 2007 Re: Player Analysis I presume on laddies that you cannot "find player" without making them a buddy? (which they have to approve)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bubbles Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 Re: Player Analysis Just looked, think you will have to just scan through the names on the tables on the lobby unfortuantly. So with the second player his agression is way up on the river? (although not 100% sure on the stat numbers?) So I Guess he oftern tries to steal the pot on the river with a large raise, so that would suggest to me that when you are heads up with a good hand then playing it really softly is best as you know they will push it usally at the end for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 1, 2007 Author Share Posted January 1, 2007 Re: Player Analysis Nice plan of action Mr B :ok I need to check exactly what he is doing on the river, but sounds reasonable :ok I THINK the aggression factor is the proportion of time someone Bets to the proportion of times someone calls - so in 5 hands, if you call once and raise 4 times, then your aggression factor is 4. SO this guy has an aggression factor on the river of over 4, that is he raises on the river over 80% of the time :loon Very strange from someone who is a passive calling station the rest of the time....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhornet Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 Re: Player Analysis GaF, How many players are you looking at analysing? I tried to place a note on every player I played against on STT's on VCPoker, and found I only rarely played against the same player more than once. The in-depth analysis is superb, and on the 2nd guy, as MrB points out, you have a real tell on his river play, but I do wonder how many people you are going to have to analyze in order to have a portfolio of players that gives you an advantage every time you sit down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 1, 2007 Author Share Posted January 1, 2007 Re: Player Analysis I'm selecting the players to look at depending on number of hands I've seen them play - on laddies it is the same players again and again........ I think that with a fairly small portfolio of notes, I could quite easily have notes on 50% or so of the players on a table when I sit down...... Poker Tracker does have the ability to auto generate notes, depending on certain criteria, which I may look at at some point.... :unsure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhornet Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 Re: Player Analysis Good luck!! Sounds like a tough job, but possibly a very profitable one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robilaruk Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Re: Player Analysis exactly - but that is what seperates us mere mortals from the pro's in any 'gambling' field, the time they take to research and think about their subject and draw the correct conclusions from it Damo Good luck!! Sounds like a tough job' date=' but possibly a very profitable one![/quote'] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robilaruk Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Re: Player Analysis in that case - make your own notes first on a player - and then get PT to do it - so you can compare Damo Poker Tracker does have the ability to auto generate notes, depending on certain criteria, which I may look at at some point.... :unsure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 2, 2007 Author Share Posted January 2, 2007 Re: Player Analysis Haver to be honest - not sure I'm going to have the patience (and dediscation) to do this for that many players (and haven't done the first two properly yet) - this thread is more to help me (and others I hope) think about what stats in poker tracker are useful, what they really mean and how to use them to your advantage..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatBoyFat Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Re: Player Analysis Only just spotted this post GaF. As you know I have started my NL Challenge on Laddies and I am currently running at 15BB/100 over 5k hands on the $20 buy-ins. There are so many fish at this level that we probably wouldn't need to analyse the players but as I step up in levels I am sure this player analysis will become even more important. Would be happy to work on a couple of players with you and maybe even exchnage databases as I have got quite a bit datamined. Having the databses will allow us to quote hands etc. Finding the time to do it may be a problem but let me know what you think. PM me the name of the guy in the original post and I'll see what I have on him and send you a post. FBF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 3, 2007 Author Share Posted January 3, 2007 Re: Player Analysis Seems like a good idea mate - however I need some time to build up my database - I reinstalled Poker Tracker again today...... :sad (I never manage to keep my database when I reinstall :sad) Have to say I can see how bad the players are, but I'm struggling to beat them :sad Have only just turned a profit - any profit!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatBoyFat Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Re: Player Analysis I've got nearly 800 hands on Player 1 and his main stats are :- 20.86%/3.92%/1.35 So pretty similar to the stats you had. He is making up the SB 64% of the time in my stats so a bigger leak than you thought. Surprisingly he is a (8.9)BB/100 loser in my stats so that just shows how small our samples are. I contributed to one of his biggest losses when he RR my PF raise with bullets. His VPIP range includes SC, connectors and suited one gappers. PF Raise is AA-JJ (I have a JJ limp in EP), AKo, KQo. Pocket Pairs in LP. He tend to raise between 3 and 5 times the BB with these hands. 6 check raises (1.31%) of the time. The one I saw was on the turn with bottom pair and a flush draw. Can't think of anything else to take a look at. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voiceofjoe Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Re: Player Analysis Seems like a good idea mate - however I need some time to build up my database - I reinstalled Poker Tracker again today...... :sad (I never manage to keep my database when I reinstall :sad) Have to say I can see how bad the players are, but I'm struggling to beat them :sad Have only just turned a profit - any profit!!! I've also begun my cash game improvement quest on Ladbrokes, I was given some free cash on there and decided to concentrate on the cash games. I have started to use Poker Tracker also - i don't bother with it for tourneys. I was previously playing a little cash on Betfair , but the hand histories aren't importable so switched to Laddies. I have previously been quoted on here saying how much In detest the Prima Interface but playing in the Mini View is fine, as it shows amounts bet. Although I am starting at the very bottom and only moving up when i have 10 buy ins for the next level - and will move back down if I lose 5 buy-ins My goal is to win 1 max buy-in per day, and am currently a little behind schedule. I hope to meet you pair on my rise up through the ranks - what I'd like to know is how feasible is it to keep winning 1 max buy in per day as the levels increase (By 1 max buy in i mean 100*BB which it seems to be at the low levels) I seem to do far better profitwise on the shorthanded tables - but tend to play 1 *6 handed and 1 *10 handed games at once.(Find it stops boredom creeping in) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 3, 2007 Author Share Posted January 3, 2007 Re: Player Analysis I also dont use PT for tourneys - if I want something for tourneys, I use PokerSpy or Poker Office..... I play 6 tables at a time (10 handed) - all on Mini view - Quite like that view - it's practical and functional :ok Not sure what is practical ... would be interested to hear others views :ok I'm focusing at the moment on position - in an unraised pot, on the button, I'm playing almost any 2 cards - my gut feel is that it's working well (but haven't checked what PT thinks yet!!!). I'm not playing like a maniac - just using position where I can post flop..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatBoyFat Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Re: Player Analysis I've also begun my cash game improvement quest on Ladbrokes, I was given some free cash on there and decided to concentrate on the cash games. I have started to use Poker Tracker also - i don't bother with it for tourneys. I was previously playing a little cash on Betfair , but the hand histories aren't importable so switched to Laddies. I have previously been quoted on here saying how much In detest the Prima Interface but playing in the Mini View is fine, as it shows amounts bet. Although I am starting at the very bottom and only moving up when i have 10 buy ins for the next level - and will move back down if I lose 5 buy-ins My goal is to win 1 max buy-in per day, and am currently a little behind schedule. I hope to meet you pair on my rise up through the ranks - what I'd like to know is how feasible is it to keep winning 1 max buy in per day as the levels increase (By 1 max buy in i mean 100*BB which it seems to be at the low levels) I seem to do far better profitwise on the shorthanded tables - but tend to play 1 *6 handed and 1 *10 handed games at once.(Find it stops boredom creeping in) VoJ I am doing something very similar to you with a free $10 I got Laddies and will also be stepping up once I have 10 buy-ins for the next level, and stepping down when I lose 5 buy-ins. Currently I've got the free $10 upto $310 over nearly 5k hands. When you say very bottom are you referring to the beginners tables (0.01/0.02)? I'm currently on the $0.1/$0.2 NLHE tables but could step up to the 0.15/0.3 tables (although there are never many of them running). IMHO your goal is a little to aggressive. It should work at the lower levels but as you move up I don't think you will be able to sustain that win rate. For example, at the $0.1/$0.2 level I am beating it for 16BB/100 hands over 5k hands (really small sample so I could be on a major rush - although I don't think so). The best player I have in my database (with at least 1k hands) is beating that level for 20BB/100. I think that 25-30 is achievable but at the expense of only one tabling. If you make 20BB/100 then it is going to take 500 hands to make your 100BB target. My stats indicate I can get just under 50 hands per full ring table, which is about 10 table hours - 2.5 hours if 4 tabling (like me) and 5 hours if 2 tabling. Granted you will get more hands in on the 6max tables but 2 tabling you are still probably looking at 4 hours a day to achieve you goal. How many hands do you think you will play a month? As you go above the 0.1/0.2 levels the win rates will decline. I have been a limit player for the past 2 years so I don't know what is achievable in the long-run at the higher stakes. I would imagine that by the time we get to $1/$2, with a $200 buy-in, that 5BB/100 is a good win rate. If we do end up to be that 'good' then we are looking at 20 table hours to make 100B/day. 10 hours if 2 tabling 10 handed, so I would start to think about 4 tabling to take the boredom away; more achievable at full ring than 6max. Another way of thinking about the feasibility of winning 1 buy-in per day is to see where you would be by the end of the year. If you play 5 days/week then in only about 60 days my rough calculations indicate that, if you started on the $20 tables with $200 in you bankroll, then you would be playing at the $5/$10 tables with $10k in you bankroll. This just isn't going to happen, although I would love you to prove me wrong. If you are 4 tabling the $200 tables by the end of the year then that would be some achievement IMHO (unless you can play a scary amount of hands - 20k+/month). Therefore is summary I think you probably can win 100BB/day up to the 0.1/0.2 ($20 buy-in) but after that it would become more difficult. Another thought I would recommend you consider is the increased variance you will experience on the 6max tables. Whilst you are performing better in these I think there is more chance of you losing 5 buy-ins and having to step down than there would be on the 10 handed tables. I would advise either needing 20 buy-ins to step up (and step down if losing 10 buy-ins) or focus on 10 handed games only. Hope this helps and would be interested to see how you progress. :ok Hopefully we will both be 4 tabling the $200 tables by the end of the year. :cheers FBF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatBoyFat Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Re: Player Analysis Second hand of the day :- http://www.pokerhand.org/?713246 Little Piggys RR all-in is pretty standard at this level. Count the all-ins :- http://www.pokerhand.org/?713269 Been runnin good on laddies so far this year. Can't beat a bit of positive variance when it comes along :- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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