853 in Razz... Where Did I Go Wrong?!

[Jaded]

Playing Razz, been at the table about 25 hands, up $4 before this hand - mainly through winning small uncontested pots, had one big win and two fairly small losses. How bad was this? (Come on MrV, I know you at least know the rules!!) PokerStars Game #7667670616: Razz Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2006/12/29 - 19:19:30 (ET) Table 'Dione III' 8-max Seat 1: mikeybabie ($25 in chips) Seat 3: kissmyring1 ($22.30 in chips) Seat 4: jm51 ($18.15 in chips) Seat 5: bob labah ($6.65 in chips) Seat 6: MonkeyCowboy ($17.35 in chips) Seat 7: ryanbelanger ($31.75 in chips) Seat 8: JadedJ ($22.25 in chips) mikeybabie: posts the ante $0.05 kissmyring1: posts the ante $0.05 jm51: posts the ante $0.05 bob labah: posts the ante $0.05 MonkeyCowboy: posts the ante $0.05 ryanbelanger: posts the ante $0.05 JadedJ: posts the ante $0.05 *** 3rd STREET *** Dealt to mikeybabie [6h] Dealt to kissmyring1 [5d] Dealt to jm51 [5c] Dealt to bob labah [9s] Dealt to MonkeyCowboy [Kd] Dealt to ryanbelanger [5s] Dealt to JadedJ [8c 5h 3s] MonkeyCowboy: brings-in low $0.25 ryanbelanger: calls $0.25 JadedJ: raises $0.25 to $0.50 mikeybabie: folds kissmyring1: folds jm51: calls $0.50 bob labah: folds MonkeyCowboy: folds ryanbelanger: calls $0.25 *** 4th STREET *** Dealt to jm51 [5c] [Qc] Dealt to ryanbelanger [5s] [Js] Dealt to JadedJ [8c 5h 3s] [2c] JadedJ: bets $0.50 jm51: calls $0.50 ryanbelanger: calls $0.50 *** 5th STREET *** Dealt to jm51 [5c Qc] [2h] Dealt to ryanbelanger [5s Js] [Ad] Dealt to JadedJ [8c 5h 3s 2c] [Qh] ryanbelanger: bets $1 JadedJ: calls $1 jm51: calls $1 *** 6th STREET *** Dealt to jm51 [5c Qc 2h] [8s] Dealt to ryanbelanger [5s Js Ad] [6c] Dealt to JadedJ [8c 5h 3s 2c Qh] [4h] ryanbelanger: bets $1 JadedJ: calls $1 jm51: calls $1 *** RIVER *** Dealt to JadedJ [8c 5h 3s 2c Qh 4h] [2d] ryanbelanger: bets $1 JadedJ: calls $1 jm51: calls $1 *** SHOW DOWN *** ryanbelanger: shows [4c 7h 5s Js Ad 6c 3h] (Lo: 6,5,4,3,A) JadedJ: mucks hand jm51: mucks hand ryanbelanger collected $12.10 from pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot $12.60 | Rake $0.50 Seat 1: mikeybabie folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet) Seat 3: kissmyring1 folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet) Seat 4: jm51 mucked [3d As 5c Qc 2h 8s Th] Seat 5: bob labah folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet) Seat 6: MonkeyCowboy folded on the 3rd Street Seat 7: ryanbelanger showed [4c 7h 5s Js Ad 6c 3h] and won ($12.10) with Lo: 6,5,4,3,A Seat 8: JadedJ mucked [8c 5h 3s 2c Qh 4h 2d]

[Valiant23]

Re: 853 in Razz... Where Did I Go Wrong?! Alright, I'll show my ineptitude in this.... :$ :$ :$ As soon as I'd seen the A in ryanbelanger's hand then I'd be folding. You really need an A yourseld imo to have any chance of winning any Razz hand, and the fact that jm51 is calling ryan's bets you have to assume he's holding one as well, which leaves 2. You were quite right to bet out on this street imo;

*** 4th STREET *** Dealt to jm51 [3d As 5c] [Qc] Dealt to ryanbelanger [4c 7h 5s] [Js] Dealt to JadedJ [8c 5h 3s] [2c]

As you're in a strong position here. However from here it goes downhill....

*** 5th STREET *** Dealt to jm51 [3d As 5c] [Qc][2h] Dealt to ryanbelanger [4c 7h 5s] [Ad] Dealt to JadedJ [8c 5h 3s 2c] [Qh]

I would see enough in this situation to be vary wary of continuing any further in this hand. As I said earlier, Ryan has the 2 danger cards showing, and as it turns out you're behind (I think) to jm51. You should have dropped it here.

*** 6th STREET *** Dealt to jm51 [5c Qc 2h] [8s] Dealt to ryanbelanger [5s Js Ad] [6c] Dealt to JadedJ [8c 5h 3s 2c Qh] [4h]

jm gets the card he needs, whil Ryan thinks he's in good position too (although he's behind I think to jm51) You unfortunately get the card that is going to keep you in the hand, but again I wouldn't be playing at this point. The river brings no help but Ryan (very luckily imo) gets the card to win him the pot.

Seat 4: jm51 mucked [3d As 5c Qc 2h 8s Th] Seat 7: ryanbelanger showed [4c 7h 5s Js Ad 6c 3h] and won ($12.10) with Lo: 6,5,4,3,A

I'd be really pissed off if I was jm, but I don't think you ccan have any complaints, sorry mate. Now to see if I'm right I'm off to Pokerstars to get the hand rankings for Razz. :lol

[Valiant23]

Re: 853 in Razz... Where Did I Go Wrong?!

5, 5, 5, 3, 2 K, K, 4, 3, 2 2, 2, 7, 6, 5 A, A, T, 9, 8 K, Q, J, T, 9 K, Q, J, T, 7 9, 8, 7, 6, 5 9, 7, 6, 5, 3 9, 7, 6, 5, A 6, 5, 4, 3, 2 6, 4, 3, 2, A 5, 4, 3, 2, A

The lowest hand here, beats the highest hands above it on this list.

6-5-3-2-A 6-5-4-2-A 6-5-4-3-A 6-5-4-3-2 7-4-3-2-A 7-5-3-2-A And … There are 56 hands from a wheel to the worst hand that qualifies for low, 8-7-6-5-4 of any suit combination. What Beats What Any 6-high hand beats any 7- or 8-high hand. Any 7-high hand beats any 8-high hand. 7-5-3-2-A beats 7-6-3-2-A 8-7-3-2-A beats 8-7-4-2-A 8-7-6-5-3 beats 8-7-6-5-4 … and so on. In low-only games, such as Razz, there is no 8 qualifier. If a player cannot make a five card hand with five cards of different ranks, the normal high hand rankings are used, but the lowest-ranked hand wins. For example, if the one player has 5c 5d 6c 6s 9h Qd Qs, his best low would be 5-5-6-9-Q, for a pair of 5's for low. If another player has 2d 3d 3c Td Th Kh Ks, her best low hand would be 2-3-3-T-K, for a pair of 3's for low. The pair of 3's would be a better low than the pair of 5's, since that hand ranks lower as a high hand. Aces are considered low, so a pair of aces would beat a pair of 2's for low. It is possible for a player's best low to be two pair, three of a kind, or even a full house. In those cases, the high hand rankings are still used in reverse, so one pair beats two pair, two pair beats three of a kind, and three of a kind beats a full house. Within each ranking, the hands are ordered as they are with high hands, except that the lower hand wins. For example, 5c 5d 5s 7d 7c would be a better low than 6c 6d 6h 2d 2s. Again, aces are considered low, so Ac Ad As Kc Kd would beat 2d 2h 2s Qd Qh.

[msaban]

Re: 853 in Razz... Where Did I Go Wrong?! too many people will stay in chasing until 7th street with razz, unfortunatley they generally hit aswell, Ive suffered many beats these last few days, its one infuriating but very addictive game