Focus Game - Saturday 2nd December - 19:00 GMT

[GaF]

We have decided to have bigger value focus games from time to time. (Initial impetus and inspiration from Morl, given some more impetus by Mr V - cheers guys :ok) These will be announced in advance to give you the chance to play satellites in advance and qualify "on the cheap" (of course if you're rolling in it, you can buy in direct :tongue2 ) The kind of games we're talking about are Pokerstars Million (Sundays), Mansion Poker Dome Final (Sundays - $14,000 added), Mansion $5000 added (Saturdays), Pokerstars "Warm Up" (Sundays), Aussie Millions Qualifiers. I have decided to start off with the Mansion $5000 added - whilst it lacks the "honeypot" of some of the other events, it offers the best added value at the moment, so is worthwhile playing (and I would expect any PL'r to have positive ev through entering it) - I THINK this typically has under 50 entrants (though forgot to check before the start last night), so your buy in is effectively more than doubled. Buy in is $100 + $9, however there are many satellites through the week. Satellites run daily at 03:30, 07:30, 11:30, 15:30, 19:30 - buy in is $10 + $1 and 1 seat is gtd (so there is an overlay with less than 10 entrants). Post here if you're playing in satellites and let us know how you get on :ok

[Penelopeys]

Re: Focus Game - Saturday 2nd December - 19:00 GMT :loon ....$ 100... cuazeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee :loon ...I'm in :ok However... Saturday the 2nd... I am going :beer :beer :beer with friends... ...but next week :ok

[Guest gazza271]

Re: Focus Game - Saturday 2nd December - 19:00 GMT Great idea :ok I am working nights on 2nd so will not be able to make this one but count me in for any future ones that I am off for :)

[Jaded]

Re: Focus Game - Saturday 2nd December - 19:00 GMT I'm out for my birthday, and not keen on Mansion anyway, but love the idea of some high buy-ins and will definitely be playing a few of them in the future. :ok

[Burnley Joe]

Re: Focus Game - Saturday 2nd December - 19:00 GMT Yeah great idea, i`ll be there but away next weekend

[^Newbie^]

Re: Focus Game - Saturday 2nd December - 19:00 GMT $100 buy in . Steep for me . Qualifying through satelites looks very tough i guess . I will try my best to see if i have the time to qualify for it though . For $100 , we might as well try prima $150 k gurantee . $50 +$5 buy in opps didn't realise it was for the focus game on 2nd nov

[gazabroad]

Re: Focus Game - Saturday 2nd December - 19:00 GMT so,far,great,idea,so,everyone,thinks,except,noone,will,be,playing. Mmmm,,tells,You,anything? Sorry,,bad,idea,IMO Also,,my,space,bar,not,working,at,the,moment,,:@ If,You,want,a,league,with,higher,buyins,all,well,and,good,why,not,start,one? But,not,to,the,detriment,of,those,of,us,that,cant,afford,it,and,enjoy,normal,focus,league. Just,myopinion.......:unsure

[elmcroft]

Re: Focus Game - Saturday 2nd December - 19:00 GMT

so,far,great,idea,so,everyone,thinks,except,noone,will,be,playing. Mmmm,,tells,You,anything? Sorry,,bad,idea,IMO Also,,my,space,bar,not,working,at,the,moment,,:@ If,You,want,a,league,with,higher,buyins,all,well,and,good,why,not,start,one? But,not,to,the,detriment,of,those,of,us,that,cant,afford,it,and,enjoy,normal,focus,league. Just,myopinion.......:unsure

good shout gaz - complete agreement

[BAM]

Re: Focus Game - Saturday 2nd December - 19:00 GMT Great Idea:ok However I think a few of us will miss that date due to Belfast and the APAT Newcastle. So don't be put off if it's a low turnout and please try it again.

[GaF]

Re: Focus Game - Saturday 2nd December - 19:00 GMT Hear what you're saying guys and appreciate the feedback :ok It's an experiment at this stage and if noone ends up going for it, then it won't last long :ok The idea isn't that people buy in direct, rather that they give a satellite or two a go. The "problem" with the focus games at the moment, is that they give everything to freerollers and low stakes players and nothing to those who like larger buy ins ..... the idea isn't that everyone plays every game, but that we have as wide a range of focus games as possible to appeal to as large a portion of PL as possible..... In general too, I think that our standard is way above the standard of our opponents at the buy ins we play for (without a shadow of doubt) and encouraging people to have an occasional bash at a higher level for higher prizes isn't necessarily a bad thing - isn't that the dream we all chase? How are we, as a group, going to improve if we just keep playing the same muppets we're already destroying? And this specific tourney, has large added value, I think all of us who enter will have positive ev (i.e. if we play enough of them, we will show a profit) Anyway, we'll see how this goes this Saturday and take it from there :ok

[the croc]

Re: Focus Game - Saturday 2nd December - 19:00 GMT the satellite at 7.30 am had 9 players,same as the 11.30 pm game(1 seat guaranteed)one tonight in 45 mins nobody registered as yet :loon

[Valiant23]

Re: Focus Game - Saturday 2nd December - 19:00 GMT I hope to play in this game this Saturday, but I won't be buying in directly unless I can win the $100 entry fee OR I can win a satellite, but that has always been my intention. I also think that we should be aiming to extend ourselves and look at the higher buy-in tournaments by way of seeing just how good we are. I think that it is easy for us to get stuck in a groove and just play SO CL, Virgin V-points and PL league games and the decent freerolls for ever more, but I think we have a duty to consider all levels of players on PL, and don't see much harm in having a monthly or even bi-monthly(?) tournament where we have to work at it in order to play.

[RJILLA]

Re: Focus Game - Saturday 2nd December - 19:00 GMT I have been playing in this tourny for a long time it typically has about 100 players and pays out about $4400 to the winner I play in 1 $22 satellite a week if I make it great if not I buy in if you get to caught up in satellite and dont make it ,it could cost you alot more that $109 to get in I have done WONDERFUL in these tournys and I look forward to seeing you all there.

[RJILLA]

Re: Focus Game - Saturday 2nd December - 19:00 GMT

$100 buy in . Steep for me . Qualifying through satelites looks very tough i guess . I will try my best to see if i have the time to qualify for it though . For $100 , we might as well try prima $150 k gurantee . $50 +$5 buy in opps didn't realise it was for the focus game on 2nd nov

Can somone send me a PM explaining what a focus game is also how do I get in leagues etc. I am new around here and interested in getting involved As far as a Bet I got one, take the Miami Heat tonight 11/27/2006 lay the 3 points :poker

[GaF]

Re: Focus Game - Saturday 2nd December - 19:00 GMT For "What focus games are" - see this thread :ok http://www.punterslounge.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30728 FOr the PL Value added leagues - see the stickies for each tourney in this thread - at the moment: http://www.punterslounge.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36975 http://www.punterslounge.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36300 http://www.punterslounge.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37489 For how to get into them - just "sign up" in the thread - if it is not a PL exclusive event (this only applies to the Sporting Odds games at the moment) then you must vote yourself in the daily poll before the start of each leg. We do restrict them - either to members at the time the tourney was announced or a judgemental decision on contribution someone has made to PL - I'm sure you would have no problems getting into any of the leagues now :ok (though have probably missed these three - new ones are announced regularly though)

[GaF]

Re: Focus Game - Saturday 2nd December - 19:00 GMT

As far as a Bet I got one, take the Miami Heat tonight 11/27/2006 lay the 3 points :poker

Is that NFL? :unsure You may be better posting in this forum(http://www.punterslounge.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=16), however, I suspect you would need to expand a bit on your reasoning to be taken seriously ;)

[the croc]

Re: Focus Game - Saturday 2nd December - 19:00 GMT just played the 11-30pm game(7 runners) 2nd hand aa,raised to 120,1 caller flop gave rag rag jack(forget exact cards)i checked he bet 240,i go all in.he shows j 10.yipee :cow got him. turn 10 :cry goodnight croc.

[Penelopeys]

Re: Focus Game - Saturday 2nd December - 19:00 GMT

Hear what you're saying guys and appreciate the feedback :ok It's an experiment at this stage and if noone ends up going for it, then it won't last long :ok The idea isn't that people buy in direct, rather that they give a satellite or two a go. The "problem" with the focus games at the moment, is that they give everything to freerollers and low stakes players and nothing to those who like larger buy ins ..... the idea isn't that everyone plays every game, but that we have as wide a range of focus games as possible to appeal to as large a portion of PL as possible..... In general too, I think that our standard is way above the standard of our opponents at the buy ins we play for (without a shadow of doubt) and encouraging people to have an occasional bash at a higher level for higher prizes isn't necessarily a bad thing - isn't that the dream we all chase? How are we, as a group, going to improve if we just keep playing the same muppets we're already destroying? And this specific tourney, has large added value, I think all of us who enter will have positive ev (i.e. if we play enough of them, we will show a profit) Anyway, we'll see how this goes this Saturday and take it from there :ok

This is probably one of the best posts I have ever read about our focus games :clap :clap :clap Very well put, and I completely agree... I can't wait to play in a higher buy in tourney with PL players... This is pure theory: Vygotzky... go to the Zone of nearest development... and move on from there... We HAVE to go there... to get even better... :ok

[^Newbie^]

Re: Focus Game - Saturday 2nd December - 19:00 GMT I do agree that as a team as a whole , our standards are much higher than we seem to be . Having a try at the higher buy-ins would indeed does give us a good shot at the bigger prizes . I agree we should give it a shot for once to see how things go . We can move on from there i feel . I'm in agreement of trying for it , just that the buy in looks big IMO . You got to make sure you are in the right frame of mind to play it as its no longer a freeroll or a very low buy in event . Once , you are not in it , you tend to waste your money just like that . Simple as that . Above are just my opinion btw . Wonder if anyone agree with it ? My own personal experience from the larger buy ins i have played so far .

[wurzel133]

Re: Focus Game - Saturday 2nd December - 19:00 GMT $100 buy in is well out of my league but i wouldnt play in any game on a saturday night as i ive normally been on the beer by then. For the last few weeks you have been having the betway frreroll as your focus game which a lot of people said they liked the time of. Wouldnt it be possible to have a smaller buy in game around the same time then as elmcroft suggests have some form of league for the highrollers on a saturday night.

[gazabroad]

Re: Focus Game - Saturday 2nd December - 19:00 GMT O.K. I have re-read this thread from the start, and although I still think that there should be a seperate league for those that want to play for higher stakes, I´m willing to give it a go. (providing initially that it is just a trial for one or two days a month.) I think the point is that a lot of us are new to poker, and as such shouldn´t be playing out of our depth. Ultimately this is a gambling forum that would always emphasise to people, (newbies as well as oldtimers), that You should never gamble with money that You cant afford to lose. This new development seems to me to be encouraging exactly that.:unsure IN FACT ENOUGH SAID. I really dont see why You cant have a focus league as the one that has been working very well up to now for us Freerollers or whatever you called us? Set another one up for You lot that can afford it. Then as people got better or maybe won a bit of money, they could promote themselves if they wanted to. Not enough discussion with everybody else if You ask me. Just my opinion.

[happyhornet]

Re: Focus Game - Saturday 2nd December - 19:00 GMT I think both GaF and gazabroad have valid points. I, for one, could not afford to play in a $100 buy in tourney. That would represent a fair %age of my bankroll. (I'm not saying I'm poor, but I have to save up for freerolls). Equally, there are players on here that can easily afford $100+, and they should have their day in the sun. Potential compromise would be a tourney with a $30/50 buy in with satellites starting at $3/5. I don't know if such a beast exists, but I would, on occasion, be willing to give that a couple of go's to qualify for a bigger tourney. Again, just my humble opinion.

[Guest gazza271]

Re: Focus Game - Saturday 2nd December - 19:00 GMT I think both gaz and happyh have made valid points :ok I'm never going to be the worlds best poker player and likewise my bankroll will not enable me to buy into a tournament that size. On the flip side I would love to play in a tournament with that size buy in, is the standard of play really that much better ? Will I learn anything ? We all want to improve as players and this could be a good positive step forward. I'm working this weekend so cant play, but the next one I will be trying to qualify via the satellite :ok We already have focus games with a $10 buy in (hendon mob) so most of us have already paid that size buy in, just that this time instead of prize money its for entry into a bigger tournament where potentially any winnings will be much much larger Just my opinion of course :ok

[gazabroad]

Re: Focus Game - Saturday 2nd December - 19:00 GMT

I think both gaz and happyh have made valid points :ok I'm never going to be the worlds best poker player and likewise my bankroll will not enable me to buy into a tournament that size. We already have focus games with a $10 buy in (hendon mob) so most of us have already paid that size buy in, just that this time instead of prize money its for entry into a bigger tournament where potentially any winnings will be much much larger

Think Your´re missing my point here. This is not a $10 buyin, its $100. You could spend $80 trying then not even qualify for a FOCUS game. See my point?

[Guest gazza271]

Re: Focus Game - Saturday 2nd December - 19:00 GMT

Think Your´re missing my point here. This is not a $10 buyin, its $100. You could spend $80 trying then not even qualify for a FOCUS game. See my point?

yep noted that it's $100 buy in but also you may well qualify on 1st attempt and have entry into the tournament for "only" $10. I certainly do not play every focus game, what with work etc so it wont be a major drama if I miss this one, as for the $10 buy in then its up to each of us as to how much we spend while trying to qualify.

[GaF]

Re: Focus Game - Saturday 2nd December - 19:00 GMT Will try and give my response to all the points you've made mate :ok

O.K. I have re-read this thread from the start, and although I still think that there should be a seperate league for those that want to play for higher stakes, I´m willing to give it a go. (providing initially that it is just a trial for one or two days a month.) I think the point is that a lot of us are new to poker, and as such shouldn´t be playing out of our depth. Ultimately this is a gambling forum that would always emphasise to people, (newbies as well as oldtimers), that You should never gamble with money that You cant afford to lose.

Agree totally - noone should play with money they cannot afford to lose. Noone should play for buy ins that they are not entirely comfortable with. That is not in dispute. There is no compulsion to play in all focus games - indeed I am probably the only one who does!!!!! You (and everyone else) should be comfortable missing games that you dont feel at ease with. Afterall, the BPP is just a bit of fun - nothing serious or finances - just pride and a title!!! It sounds to me like you're not comfortable with this, but intend to enter anyway? DON'T!! The BPP really isn't worth that much!! If you're not comfortable, then you shouldn't enter (and there's no shame i that!)

This new development seems to me to be encouraging exactly that.:unsure

If a shop sells TV's for £300 and £3000, are the £3000 TV's unfair because they are encouraging people to spend money they cannot afford? Isn't this choice of focus game similar? Just providing a wider range of choice? (OK, for one night the £300 TV's are out of stock, but tomorrow they'll be back ;) ) Don't forget as well the MASSIVE value that this tourney is offering - most of the time, playing poker has a net loss amongst players (the rake), meaning an "average" player makes a loss in the long run - this tourney offers a net sum gain for the entrants (and quite sizeable too) - that means that in the long run, this tournament offers the "average" player a profit!!! If people are happy to risk this size buy in, then, over time, they should probably expect to make a profit!!!

IN FACT ENOUGH SAID. I really dont see why You cant have a focus league as the one that has been working very well up to now for us Freerollers or whatever you called us? Set another one up for You lot that can afford it. Then as people got better or maybe won a bit of money, they could promote themselves if they wanted to.

When I started out on PL I was new to poker. That could be seen in my focus in what I did here - it was on freerolls and low buy in events. A lot of people joined PL around that time and we have gone on the journey together. We have developed and improved our games together. When the BPP started I maintained that focus on cheaper games, but wanted to include others too and allow us to continue to develop together, whilst not including newcomers too who perhaps hadn't been on the rest of the journey with us. Unfortunately the BPP hasn't really achieved this and the focus has remained on freerolls and cheaper buy ins. For me personally, I feel this is holding me back and slowing my development. I want to play bigger and better games and develop my game, but find it very difficult to find the opportunity to do that whilst working on everything else I do on PL. When Morl first approached me on this (he was feeling the same) it struck a chord with me (and we have discussed it in the mods forum), hence this "experiment". As you say, the ideal would be to have 2 leagues, a freerolls and low buy in league and a higher value league - I'm just not comfortable taking on any extra "work" at the moment though - Talking completely selfishly, I just dont get the same interest out of the low value freerolls any more - ideally I'd like to forget the freerolls and low buy in league and just do a higher value league - I appreciate though that this is not what the majority of PL'rs want, which is why the majority of games remain low buy in and freerolls will continue to dominate the BPP league. Perfect would be if someone on here who is still at the "freeroll" stage of their poker evolution would want to take over the running of the current BPP league and I would set up a new one ...... however it's a lot of work and a lot to ask someone else to do if they're not completely commited to it.....

Not enough discussion with everybody else if You ask me. Just my opinion.

I'm not sure that we can have discussion every time a different focus game is chosen ...... I try and choose a balanced selection of games and am more than aware that I dont please everyone all of the time, but is there really any harm in my trying to get a good balance of games?

[gazabroad]

Re: Focus Game - Saturday 2nd December - 19:00 GMT I understand what You are saying and take on board the points You make. Thanks for answering, I dont personally play every focus game as You know. In fact I wont play on Titan (as they dont give me a straight answer) and I dont like Full Tilt either (fussy fcuker, I know). Not going to play these games when nobody else here is playing as I do agree with You about our standard being better than 3 months ago. However I think we need to strike a balance as well so that everybody, if not more, can also get involved. I know I play a better game when money is involved so I assume that most others are the same too. I think what worries me most is the size of the jump, not the fact that it is happening, as I think that is inevitable :\

[Valiant23]

Re: Focus Game - Saturday 2nd December - 19:00 GMT I can't afford $100 from my finances or bankroll. I really can't. When I gave my opnions to Gaf? and the others regarding the higher buy-ins I suggested that by having a higher buy-in it would 'challenge' the players and take them out of their comfort zone, because first and foremost most players would have to find the buy-in, and then have to compete. I was taken a little by surprise that Gaf? chose a game for this Saturday, as I thought a month or 4 weeks notice would give people the time to finance the buy-in at a slightly gentler pace. Maybe in a similar fashion to the Project WSoP 2007 thread, but what the heck. If I can't afford it this time I'll try harder for the next one. Just to re-iterate. I am one of those who has got to get the buy-in together, whether it's through a satellite or by winning it on the tables. But I do think that most players on here could probably profit by $100 over a week if they have the time and set their mind to it. I didn't for one moment think that we would be excluding PLers by choosing a game like this. I actually think the standard of player on here deserves to be playing at this level, and I thought this would be a good way of persuading established players that they can reach higher. If anything I see it as a vote of confidence in all of us because I think anyone of us could win this on Saturday. But if they can't afford it or get the buy-in together? maybe next time.

[GaF]

Re: Focus Game - Saturday 2nd December - 19:00 GMT Hear what your saying Mr V - I "moved fast" because of the gap this Saturday caused by taking the Betway freeroll out (and not seeing an obvious replacement)

[slick mick]

Re: Focus Game - Saturday 2nd December - 19:00 GMT I totally agree that PL members are capable of winning at this sort of level. I'm still proud of cashing in a £1000 buy in event (Bolton Poker6) but I got there through a freeroll. I think the jump from a $10 biggest focus game to a $100 game is the problem for most people. I know I need to be playing bigger games and I know I can win at them but for some of us money is quite tight and a more gradual rise in buy-ins might work better. I'd like to see more $5 and $10 focus games and a gradual rise to $20 or $30 games. This would also be more in line with all the advice we've seen posted about bankroll management. Have to agree with Mr V about more notice as well. If I had a couple weeks notice about a $20 buy in focus event I'm sure I could raise the buy in easily by playing cash games or $5 sng's. All in all it's definitely the way to go but maybe this step is just a tad too big.