GaF Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 If you are looking at this before there is a Poll in place - give it a few minutes and there will be a poll with some options..... Here is an actual position from a game I played earlier this evening. Have done the playback and analysis and this was a big mistake I made. If I had made the right play, then I could have had 67.46% winning chance - in the end I had 59.4% winning chance .... so one move cost me 8% of my chance to win!!!! What move should I have made in this position? I went on to lose this game. I am the transparent counters moving anticlockwise from Top Right to Top Left to Bottom Left to Bottom Right, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Re: Backgammon - You make the play My choice isn't in the poll. :unsure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted November 7, 2006 Author Share Posted November 7, 2006 Re: Backgammon - You make the play Well the Poll - should be the top 10 options!!!! What was your choice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Re: Backgammon - You make the play Well, OK, I'm not sure it's actually my choice, but one of the moves I was seriously considering was 8/2 6/1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted November 7, 2006 Author Share Posted November 7, 2006 Re: Backgammon - You make the play Well, OK, I'm not sure it's actually my choice, but one of the moves I was seriously considering was 8/2 6/1. That's the 11th best move - only just missed out and leaves you with 57.23% winning chances........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Re: Backgammon - You make the play OK, gone for 13/8 13/7. Is the answer different if the effect of winning or losing a gammon is significant? Am I right that you're 6-4 up in a match to 7, and this is the Crawford game? So winning a gammon is no better than winning a single game, and losing a gammon is only a little bit worse than losing a single game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted November 7, 2006 Author Share Posted November 7, 2006 Re: Backgammon - You make the play This is NOT the crawford game - I was 6-0 up....... YOu can see at the bottom the little "crawford game" box is not ticked ..... if this were the crawford game, I'm sure it would impact the result...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocket Lady Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Re: Backgammon - You make the play I've gone for 13/7 13/8- this is because I'd be keeping my counters safe as he has the couple on 4 and 1. :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted November 7, 2006 Author Share Posted November 7, 2006 Re: Backgammon - You make the play If it were the crawford game then 13/8 13/7 is your 12th best option ;) Yes - I am 6-4 up in a 7 point match :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voiceofjoe Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Re: Backgammon - You make the play i've voted 20/15 8/2 Protecting my 'single' in my home board and progressing my other single out of harms way on my opponents side. I'll take the risk of leaving my 'single' on the 8 point as if he takes this i've got shots at that with my 2 from the 13 point (and even the 15 point if he moves if on farther) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masterplan Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Re: Backgammon - You make the play how do you play backgammon then :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Re: Backgammon - You make the play If it were the crawford game then 13/8 13/7 is your 12th best option ;) I'm surprised. I thought it would be worse if it wasn't the Crawford game, because, leaving two blots, it leaves you more open to losing a gammon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted November 7, 2006 Author Share Posted November 7, 2006 Re: Backgammon - You make the play Ok - here's the answer from GNU I let it analyse a bit more in depth, so numbers dont necessarily match exactly what I said earlier. So the answer is 20/15 8/2 which is significantly better than any other option. Well done VoiceofJoe, the only one to get the answer right and a good/persuasive write up too :ok In the heat of battle I played 7/1 6/1 which looking at it now I can clearly see why it was a mistake........ In the table MWC = Match Winning Chance - this is the key indicator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Re: Backgammon - You make the play What's the significance of the red lines and the asterisks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted November 7, 2006 Author Share Posted November 7, 2006 Re: Backgammon - You make the play One of the red lines is what I played - the other one I'm not sure - usually there's only the one :unsure The asterisk - I presume it signifies hitting :unsure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelopeys Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Re: Backgammon - You make the play I would go with 8/3 and 8/2... not leaving anything open for the opponent! He's got a decent house himself and don't want to go there right now, as long as I can avoid it :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Re: Backgammon - You make the play I was interested in how consistent GNU Backgammon would be with other similar programs. Here's Snowie's top 10: It agrees about the best move, but it's match-winning chance is about 2% lower. The order of the other moves is quite different, but they are all fairly close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelopeys Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Re: Backgammon - You make the play Very interesting :unsure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daftpegasus Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Re: Backgammon - You make the play I would have played 8/2,8/3 purely because by taking out the counter on number one you're hoping that he rolls a 1,3 or 6 on each dice (25%). His counter moving back 1 place is insignificant. You are also praying that he does not roll a 2 with either dice (33%?). Protect you're weakest counter and block more of his starting positions should you take out one of his counters later on. (I apologise for the language used here which I'm sure is not correct Gammon terminology but I've only ever played on my mobile phone before - used to arrive early to beat the traffic but then find myself locked out until the key holder arrived.) Gaf - I'd be interested to know why you can now see "clearly" that this was an error? Is it just the software programme's results, the outcome of the game or something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted November 8, 2006 Author Share Posted November 8, 2006 Re: Backgammon - You make the play Gaf - I'd be interested to know why you can now see "clearly" that this was an error? Is it just the software programme's results, the outcome of the game or something else? I think he has a stronger home board than me and my move leaves too many blots - I was too interested in hitting (the probablility is that he will escape and hit me) when my priority should have been to reduce my blots ..... My move leaves blots on 2, 7 and 20 - all of which have a good chance of being hit - the 20/15 8/2 move only leaves a blot on 8 which probably wont be hit..... Pretty much along the lines of VoJ comments :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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