GaF Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 As I have mentioned - I recorded my entire game at Mansion from last night. It comes in at 2 hrs 35 mins and 72 mb - I intend to upload it for completeness (and anyone mad enough to want to watch it all!!!), however my main intention is to upload an edited version with a few key/interesting hands. By special request from DanDan, here you can see the first one - interested in thoughts on my play good or (especially) bad:-) http://www.screencast.com/users/GaF/media/6a64a670-2729-4ed9-98ee-73580f2ef069 This hand largely demonstrates my strategy that I discussed in DaftPegasus' vid thread. I am on the button with 86s. The blinds are 25/50 and the average stack at the table is about 2000 chips. This gives me large implied odds if I play a drawing hand. My connectors have a gap in them and are quite low, so I'm not overjoyed by them, however when it comes round to me with two limpers and knowing I'm on the button, I decide to try and see a cheap flop. SB folds and BB checks - I get to see my cheap flop which comes down AT4 giving me the 4 flush :-). I'm not too happy, because it isn't a high flush draw, however the A spades on the board decreases the chance someone else has the flush draw (AsXs isn't in someones hand!!). Three players before me all check - I take the free card ...... Looking at it now I would have preferred a pot sized bet - I wouldn't have been disappointed to take it down there and then, however a caller wouldn't have been bad news as I would have started building the pot...... The turn comes a 7 (not spade). This is a nice card for me (other than a spade) and adds an up and down straight draw for me. I now consider myself to have 9 spades, 3 fives and 3 nines as outs - that's 15 outs - about 30% to hit with the river to come......Again everyone checks to me - with the stronger draw I'm happy to put a bet sized bet in - if I take it down, all well and good, if I get callers, no problem, I'm building the pot in case I hit..... Rippy and Hodgey fold on cue, but DanDan check raises me!!! Alarm bells are ringing!!!! But it's quite a small raise and I easily have the odds to call (I don't believe DanDan has anything that could be beating me if I hit one of my outs......the 4s and 7s pairing the board and giving me my flush would be the big danger cards). I get a dream card - the 9c. J8 is the only hand that can beat me now and I can be absolutely certain that DanDan does not have that - I KNOW I have won the hand and it is just a question of seeing how much I can win...... I'm pleased to see DanDan open the betting - but 200 into a pot of 1225 seems a weak bet - or a "call me" bet. What do I think DanDan can have here? I think a PP is a possibility - maybe 44, TT or 77 making trips. I also think a paired Ace is a possibility for 2 pair - A4, AT or A7. These are I feel the most likely hands. Now, this is where my experience of playing muppets too much comes in and not enough consideration that I'm up against a PL'r!! I raise all in expecting a call from a worse hand!! Will cost DanDan 1035 into a pot of 1425, but perhaps more importantly will leave DD with 300 chips and pretty much end her tourney. She makes a good lay down!! Note to self: When I am winning and against stronger players, make a bet on the river that they can call!!! I win the hand and have a healthy stack - but could I have won more? Could I have got DanDans stack? Should I have been in the hand at all? Should I have respected DD reraise more and got out of the hand? What did DD have? (I'm sure she'll tell us later) What would YOU have done different? (and why?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted November 3, 2006 Author Share Posted November 3, 2006 Re: DanDan Hand Analysis Just to add - that link plays in the browser and is quite small (about 1mb) so don't be afraid of large downloads if you click on the link....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAN DAN Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 Re: DanDan Hand Analysis Can't see it GaF, probably a good thing :lol . I am not very good at analysing my play, hate to see my weaknesses, just ask Ed, I'm as stubborn as they come. I had 88 and I didn't think you had hit your hand but I am a cautious player and if i am in doubt I will put down a hand. Too often Ed says. Trying to remember my thoughts, I am quite often lucky at hitting trips so if not having to pay much I would still be in the hand for this reason, then I am representing what I don't have but only half heartedly by the looks of it. This is where I need to improve. The upshot is I should not still have been in the hand and actually gifted you a LOT more chips than you should have got. Would be ineresting to see it though. Unfortunately quite often there is now reasoning behind my play so maybe not the best person to do an analysis on :lol , or maybe yes (what the muppets are really thinking :rollin ) When I am winning and against stronger players, make a bet on the river that they can call!!!:rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAN DAN Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 Re: DanDan Hand Analysis No more analysis of my play please, don't like it :sad :lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted November 4, 2006 Author Share Posted November 4, 2006 Re: DanDan Hand Analysis I cant see it either!!! Looks like their site is down - will try again later..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAN DAN Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 Re: DanDan Hand Analysis I cant see it either!!! Looks like their site is down - will try again later..... Nooooooo for the love of god, noooooooo:lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-ed- Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 Re: DanDan Hand Analysis Muppetry of the highest order ;) :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :lol :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :ok :cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAN DAN Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 Re: DanDan Hand Analysis Watched it now and I don't think it looks as bad as I thought it would, should have gone all-in when you raised, would you have called that? That's what I would have done differently, probably would have cleaned me out no doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted November 4, 2006 Author Share Posted November 4, 2006 Re: DanDan Hand Analysis Watched it now and I don't think it looks as bad as I thought it would, should have gone all-in when you raised, would you have called that? That's what I would have done differently, probably would have cleaned me out no doubt. If you'd put in a bigger check raise on the turn I couldn't call ...... However that would have been one hell of a move from you with two overcards on the board!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAN DAN Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 Re: DanDan Hand Analysis If you'd put in a bigger check raise on the turn I couldn't call ...... However that would have been one hell of a move from you with two overcards on the board!!!! Yes but by that time I believed no-one had the overcards. Just wasn't tough enough I think, it is a situation i would go all-in on quite often. Will lose out a lot I know. The only thing I would do differently is bet heavily on the turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
^Newbie^ Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 Re: DanDan Hand Analysis had a brief look at your 86s and i don't really like your play on the turn , especially betting after everyone checks yet again . Looks like a risky play to me as you may risk people raising you to a certain extent . In this case , DanDan did raise and as you said you wanted to build a pot up first in case you did hit something . hmmm , not sure i would have agreed with that as you are paying a higher amount to see the river card than you would have liked i feel .Still plenty of time left and i would easily chuck that away and wait for better opportunities . For me , my style is always to see board cards cheaply unless i know that player is prone to be weak when faced against big bets . In the end , u did hit your straight but it comes at a much higher price i feel . :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted November 6, 2006 Author Share Posted November 6, 2006 Re: DanDan Hand Analysis Cheers mate :ok The way I see it - there are 2 choices as I'm last to act..... I can peel off a free card and see if I hit. If I do then I need to try and get money in on the end - If my opponent has missed completely, or the river card scares them (as it should do if I hit) then it may be difficult. or I can put in a bet now. I may win the pot if my opponent folds. So I win even if I weren't going to hit.... or my opponent may call - if I miss, then I probably have to let it go and lose the pot, but if I hit, I have a better chance of getting action (because the pot is bigger and more important). So by betting I have 2 ways to win the pot (fold from opponents or hitting) instead of one way (hitting). Of course on the down side, I may miss and end up losing that bet ...... however overall my view is that it is positive EV (though perhaps marginal against 4 opponents, albeit 4 opponents who haven't shown any strength yet) - levereging that "fold equity" is key to my game... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 Re: DanDan Hand Analysis Firsly, I wouldn't have been in the hand, 86s would have been an instant preflop fold for me. I've watched this hand several times, and still don't know exactly who played well here. The check raise on the turn with a pair of 8s was audacious given the 2 overcards. At this stage I'd put her on 2 pair, maybe trips. But it was a fairly weak check raise, A question for DD, when you made the CR, did you assume you were ahead at this point ? If so, then a bigger raise to scare him off the pot was clearly in order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted November 6, 2006 Author Share Posted November 6, 2006 Re: DanDan Hand Analysis Firsly, I wouldn't have been in the hand, 86s would have been an instant preflop fold for me. Me neither, until recently. There was a discussion on Poker Night Live about the differences between Limit and No Limit (and also in a book I read recently, but cannot recall which one) and one of the fundamental differences seems to be implied odds - you just don't have them in Limit to the same degree ...... so that got me thinking about how (and when) I can benefit from the large implied odds - and the conclusion I came to was I had to see a lot more flops (cheaply) with drawing hands that could make the Nuts early in tournaments (when stack sizes were large multiples of the blinds) - in this case, I was on the button with multiple limpers before me - Dan Dan had 40 BB in her stack - Hodgey had 70 in his stack ... and so on - If I miss (or hit one pair) I wouldn't put any more in the pot ..... with such low cards - not really looking for the flush either - the straight is the goldmine I'm chasing - most of the time I wont get it and will fold - but when I do get it, I have a great chance of getting paid off (would you have put me on 86??) I view playing these as the latest stage in my development as a tourney player and so far I think it's been successful for me ...... the key is implied odds!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAN DAN Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 Re: DanDan Hand Analysis A question for DD' date= when you made the CR, did you assume you were ahead at this point ? If so, then a bigger raise to scare him off the pot was clearly in order. Yes I did and I agree, it is what I now think I did wrong. Personally I thought I was ahead before the check and should have raised it then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
^Newbie^ Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Re: DanDan Hand Analysis hmmmm , fair enough GaF . Early stage of tourney you may limp with those as it doesn't cost much and would help you find out some information about an opponent .I Seldom do this during the late stages though , until when its down to a few players where the aggressor will win pots most of the time . For me , so far , i'm defo shit at cash games (Betfair new software seems to suck as i can't seem to win anything in the cash games there . :@ I give up . Prima poker is relatively ok but i lose more than i win . Playtech seems to be profitable for me but there seems to be many bad beats occuring .) After playing for quite some time , i'm more inclined nowadays to go into STTs and buy in MTTs . Played plenty of STTs but still feels that i need improvement . As for MTT wise , played a few and found that there's a big difference between a freeroll and a paid tourney . You tend to need to think of ways to get paid for your hands in paid ones . Unlike the freerolls where any bugger would like the challenge of cracking your hands . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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