Heads Up Play

[GaF]

[BAM]

Re: Heads Up Play for me its a gut feeling GaF sod them books 2 rules: If you've got a hand PLAY IT If your hand adds up to 17 or more ALL IN works for me be interested to hear what others have to say

[mullet1984]

Re: Heads Up Play For me its play an Ace or king in your hand strong, and a queen to a lesser extent. If u get alot of paint then raise strong as well and obviously any pair your happy to move all in imo. I always try and be the aggressor. Its all about betting with nothing but not too often, easier said than done. Then again i'm no heads up player either but i have some success :ok

[GaF]

Re: Heads Up Play

If your hand adds up to 17 or more ALL IN

Jeez - so we start off - stacks of 1500 each, blinds 10/20, you're dealt Q8o in position - SURELY you don't go all in? Or other extreme - AA, all in? (with 75 Big Blinds in your stack!!)

[GaF]

Re: Heads Up Play

For me its play an Ace or king in your hand strong' date=' and a queen to a lesser extent.[/quote'] That's EXACTLY what Lee Jones says in his book, and how I've been playing. I feel my weakness is over aggression, and being unable to lay hands down (even nothing - I just keep raising!!) - my opponents just sit there, wait till they have a hand, then wipe me out......

[Tax_Monkey]

Re: Heads Up Play

for me its a gut feeling GaF sod them books 2 rules: If you've got a hand PLAY IT If your hand adds up to 17 or more ALL IN works for me be interested to hear what others have to say

Can't agree with the 17 or more thing, I mean your gonna put all your chips on 10/7 os??? Agree with the "got a hand play it" bit though. For me controlled aggression is the key, I'll raise with any face card but if a strong re-riase comes in I'll fold unless I've got a decent kicker. Any two face cards and all in. If he's acting first a weak raise or call and I'm all in with pretty much anything, as the book says make your opponent make the hard choices!! Having said that I doubt my heads up tally would look any better than your GaF?

[BAM]

Re: Heads Up Play

Jeez - so we start off - stacks of 1500 each, blinds 10/20, you're dealt Q8o in position - SURELY you don't go all in? Or other extreme - AA, all in? (with 75 Big Blinds in your stack!!)

I would GaF its all about personal style for me Q8 is a great hand HU, got to be fearless, you may lose but in the long run that hand will win HU more than it will lose

[stevie-p]

Re: Heads Up Play play the button ...position is key in heads up. hands that u dont want to act first raise to kill the pot. a good tip for me is to play $10 games ...they watch the play more.. at the start try to show a few hands down to see how opp plays picture cards , pairs etc...also make a point of slow playing a/q or something to show opp that you mix it up. i find heads up play to be more about the player and position than anything else.... most heads up players ive played on boss all have the same betting patterns ...learn them and u can make a few quid ...also one of the most annoying features of no notes on boss netork

[chelskired]

Re: Heads Up Play

I really need to improve this aspect of my play. Have read the sections in Harrington and the section in Lee Jones, but don't seem to be making any progress. If YOU were to offer me just one tip on HU play - what would it be? What is key to HU success? How can I improve (other than reading and practicing)?

While this may not help you in H/U play, it works for me.............. DON'T go H/U with Paul "7/2os" Ross!!!!! :eyes but seriously, as your very aware, my H/U play is not a strong point (the "Bridesmaid" tag is well deserved), so I will be very interested to see what others have to say. C.R.

[BAM]

Re: Heads Up Play

Can't agree with the 17 or more thing, I mean your gonna put all your chips on 10/7 os??? Agree with the "got a hand play it" bit though. For me controlled aggression is the key, I'll raise with any face card but if a strong re-riase comes in I'll fold unless I've got a decent kicker. Any two face cards and all in. If he's acting first a weak raise or call and I'm all in with pretty much anything, as the book says make your opponent make the hard choices!! Having said that I doubt my heads up tally would look any better than your GaF?

see what your saying TM but face cards add up to nothing its points that count and a A7 is no better than a 10 9 heads up but again its all personal style it works for me

[mullet1984]

Re: Heads Up Play

That's EXACTLY what Lee Jones says in his book' date=' and how I've been playing [/quote'] That is interesting cos i the only book i've ever red is super system. I've just gained that through experience. At the end of the day its just sussing out what your opponent does, trying to read his style of play as quickly as possible, as one of the guys said the better players mix it up. I think though its the 'purist' poker you can get on the net as its more live imo but probably not the most profitable

[GaF]

Re: Heads Up Play

I would GaF its all about personal style for me Q8 is a great hand HU' date=' got to be fearless, you may lose but in the long run that hand will win HU more than it will lose[/quote'] Not disagreeing with going all in with Q8o, BUT disagreeing with going all in with Q8o with 65xBB!!!!! That's one hell of a raise!!! Surely the rewards (30 chips) are outweighed by the risk (1500 chips) when you are called by AA, KK, QQ, AKs, AKo, AQs, AQo .....

[GaF]

Re: Heads Up Play

play the button ...position is key in heads up. hands that u dont want to act first raise to kill the pot. a good tip for me is to play $10 games ...they watch the play more.. at the start try to show a few hands down to see how opp plays picture cards , pairs etc...also make a point of slow playing a/q or something to show opp that you mix it up. i find heads up play to be more about the player and position than anything else.... most heads up players ive played on boss all have the same betting patterns ...learn them and u can make a few quid ...also one of the most annoying features of no notes on boss netork

Yeah - aware of the importance of position HU - will typically raise 3xBB on the button, or 5xBB if I play, off the button ........ I will never flat call if I am out of position. Afraid it is against my fundamental poker philossify to go up to $10 if I can't beat $5. I firmly believe that the standard of poker generally increases as you play higher buy ins - If I can't beat bad players, I feel I have to work out how to beat them consistently before I'll take on better players - that way I always have a (profitable) level to which I can fall back on if it doesn't work as I hope....... Notes are coming on Boss soon (this year :unsure) I believe ;)

[GaF]

Re: Heads Up Play

That is interesting cos i the only book i've ever red is super system. I've just gained that through experience. At the end of the day its just sussing out what your opponent does' date=' trying to read his style of play as quickly as possible, as one of the guys said the better players mix it up. I think though its the 'purist' poker you can get on the net as its more live imo but probably not the most profitable[/quote'] There's no hiding place in HU poker ...... At a full 10 seat table you can play at low levels just premium cards and you'll do ok - patience is all it takes - HU is a totally different kettle of fish though.......

[Guest gazza271]

Re: Heads Up Play For me Tax Monkey makes a great point - "CONTROLLED AGGRESSION" Any half decent hand, even A rag and a big raise goes in. Any PP or AK AQ AJ A10 KQ KJ etc also gets a big raise and see what the response is. For me a lot depends on how the other guy has played uptil then. Have i been bullying him, has he been aggressive etc. On the flip side I will quite often call with shite for the first few hands if its cheap so they think they are playing a muppett (before you say it i know know !!!!! ) and find when one of the stronger hands comes they will still call because of the previous hands. I feel that i am happy against anyone HU. Bold statement and sitting here thinking about it am i being over-confident ? Maybe,maybe not. I feel GaF is one of the strongest players on here but the stats make strange reading, GaF are you happy with your play ? any GUT feeling on whether it was bad luck or bad play etc ?

[stereoman]

Re: Heads Up Play I once had the misfortune of having pocket kings on my first hand in a heads-up match for cash where I was the small blind. I called and they went all-in and I followed. They revealed ace rag and subsequently pairs their ace on the flop. :( I don't wave my heads-up title with any gusto (I am the Robert Varkonyi of PL....a complete fluke win and nothing else to back it up with, since! :lol). Keys to heads-up success? 1. Position 2. Aggressiveness (push the other player off their comfort level) 3. Table image 4. Luck :lol :rollin

[Penelopeys]

Re: Heads Up Play Hmmm, really want to say something clever here... but nothing comes to mind :unsure .... though I think it is very hard to generalize on HU play... If you just play a 2 handed stt HU I think that there is 1 gameplan to follow most of the times.. However if you are HU in a 10 handed stt, it is another gameplan... ...and finally... HU in a mtt... again another gameplan... Of course there will always be some golden rules to follow... such as the position stuff... But it has to do a lot with fearlessness and table image.... Am I making any sense??? :unsure Probably not... off to :zzz :zzz Maybe I am more clever tomorrow ;)

[Cloud]

Re: Heads Up Play My only tip is for the end game. If ahead (for example 2500-500) be ultra patient - your opponent "should" be looking to double up, and if the blinds are still relatively small - don't give him the chance, and don't ever play small pairs in this scenario (don't want coin flip) - plenty of time to pin him down. Conversely, if behind - look to go all in with any medium or strong hands - so I would go all in around 30%-40% of the time - at least your opponent thinks you are being somewhat selective - so he will have to be careful. These scenarios only apply to what I call the "end game" - if the chips start to even up - go back to what you would normally do. It works for me (sometimes!!!)

[brael]

Re: Heads Up Play

and don't ever play small pairs in this scenario (don't want coin flip) - plenty of time to pin him down.

I feel that in heads-up play when holding any pair you've got a slight edge as the chances are that your opponent isn't holding a pair. I'd play ducks during HU if they came up. Think I'll be giving up pocket ladies though... lost count of the number of times I've seen that hand get busted!

[Cloud]

Re: Heads Up Play In normal play I would definitely be playing any pairs. However, in that specific scenario, when I have my opponent pinned down - and there is a likelihood that he will go all in - I wouldn't be playing a small pair. There is a good chance he will two overcards (which would be a coinflip) - or if he has a bigger pair - you're in trouble. Why give your opponent a 50/50 chance of doubling up?

[GaF]

Re: Heads Up Play

Maybe' date='maybe not. I feel GaF is one of the strongest players on here but the stats make strange reading, GaF are you happy with your play ? any GUT feeling on whether it was bad luck or bad play etc ?[/quote'] Cheers for the compliment Gazza - I've had a couple of exceptional wins, which make people overestimate my standard of play ...... but look at the PL leagues - when did you last see me in contention for winning the blasted thing? :P My feeling is it is bad (overaggressive) play. Tried again, a little less aggressive for the following results :)

Opponent	Buy in	Result
dagobert80	$5.25	won
23veron	$5.25	won
Drainers	$5.25	won
$LUZAGO$	$5.25	won
Trepettoni	$5.25	lost
marsattack	$5.25	won
Frasier777	$5.25	won
bau86	$5.25	won	8
jesuisla1	$5.25	lost	52%
jesuisla1	$5.25	won	$27.50

Fingers crossed - will try again at $5, but hopefully I have this level licked :hope Not sure I entirely agree. In the scenario where you have 2500 and your opponent has 500. I would take a coin flip for 500 chips to win the tournament there and then. The 500 chips I risk (ignoring blinds - counting them you're offered odds against for your 53% odd shot) hold far less value to me than the 500 chips my opponent is risking. He's risking his tourney on a coin clip - I'm not. Also, if you are first to act, you have some fold equity too (though I would call an all in without the fold equity). Even if I lose, I still have 2000 chips against his 1000 and am still a favourite!!! With a 22 I'm pretty confident I am favourite - can I expect a higher degree of certainty of being favourite with a later hand? (presuming that the opponent is all in or fold pre flop!!)

[slapdash]

Re: Heads Up Play

Not sure I entirely agree. In the scenario where you have 2500 and your opponent has 500. I would take a coin flip for 500 chips to win the tournament there and then. The 500 chips I risk (ignoring blinds - counting them you're offered odds against for your 53% odd shot) hold far less value to me than the 500 chips my opponent is risking. He's risking his tourney on a coin clip - I'm not.

It's true that he's risking his entire tournament and you're not, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he's risking "more". Your tournament is worth more at this stage than his, since you have more chips than he does, and therefore a higher chance of winning. If he would have exactly twice the chance of winning with 1000 chips as he would with 500 chips, and it really was a 50/50 coinflip, and the blinds really were small enough to be irrelevant, then in EV terms you break even by calling his all-in. The key question (which I don't know the answer to) is how your chance of winning the tournament heads-up varies with the number of chips you have. If you are behind 2000 to 1000, do you have more or less than twice the chance of winning as you do if you're behind 2500 to 500? Does the answer depend on the size of the blinds? In the rather artificial situation when the blinds are so big that the small blind is more than half the chips in play (so the small stack is automatically all-in and the big stack automatically calls every hand, and there is no strategy), then your chance of winning is exactly proportional to the size of your stack.

[Cloud]

Re: Heads Up Play In this situation - I am also factoring in the fact that I am a better player than my opponent (based upon the fact that I am in control). In that situation I don't want to give him a 50/50 (or 47/53) chance to double up - I think I am strong enough to beat him without doing that. If, however I knew I was up against a strong player - and I had got lucky in getting to that position - I might well play it differently.

[slapdash]

Re: Heads Up Play I decided to have a go at the $3 tables. My first problem was getting on! Started off trying the tables with 1/2 players seated. No chance! Just not fast enough. Then I tried the first listed 0/2 table. By the time I'd double-checked it was NL rather than PL, and was $3 rather than $300 ... no chance! Eventually I figured out you had to wait for two tables with no players to be listed, and join the second one. I'm ashamed to say I'm not doing well so far, only winning one out of three. The first two I felt I was clearly the better player, but on one I made the mistake of getting involved in a big pot that I lost. The third one, my opponent did seem to know what he was doing.

[GaF]

[stereoman]

Re: Heads Up Play Hmmm. Really don't know where to put this (don't wanna start a thread) but it's OT. Paul Jackson is in the final of the World Heads-Up tourney (the one in Barcelona) against some Spanish guy. Ladbrokes are offering odds but probably only because Paul's in it. They go: Actionjack 8/11, Spanish guy 11/10

[stereoman]

Re: Heads Up Play Jackoson eventually lost. Apparently Paul wasn't getting the cards but managed to hang on for a fair bit....almost know the same feeling.