Bullying

[GaF]

When I have a big chip stack, I'm not very good at bullying a table. Now I'm talking mostly about in tournaments, but specifically now, a cash game - maximum buy in is $10, and I'm sitting with just over $50, not far off the total everyone else has together - what's the best way to benefit from this situation? I'm thinking get a lot of money in frequently pre flop - if I win something like 3 out of 10, then I'll build quickly (because I can take 2 consecutive losses - other players can't) - does this thinking make sense? Or will it just lose me my stack?

[friskyfitz]

Re: Bullying You got there by playing well. To be honest I dont Bully in Cash games until I see the flop or have AA or KK ONLY. Cash games are for bleeding players dry of their cash. For me seating is important as lets say you have AQo and the SB and BB have little or no cash THEN I would force them into an all in with that hand. Most times, because they have money in the pot THEY WILL PLAY with anything reasonable TO THEM!!! No need to go throwing money around as it is not HOW YOU GOT TO BEING 500% in profit my friend ;)

[Valiant23]

Re: Bullying My initial thoughts were why change a winning formula, but I'm not really in a position to give advice on cash games. I think frisky has put it much better. I must say in my play I've never seen a 'bully' who is a good player, more likely a crap player who got lucky once or twice - which I know you haven't. Have you?

[GaF]

Re: Bullying My usual game (at least that I try for) is a patient, aggressive one. But I do have the feeling that a loose aggressive strategy can work when you have a huge chip stack (against small stacks). First of all, with marginal hands, they're more likely to fold to you, so pose the question! But the main part of my thinking - and I'm deliberately taking it to an extreme - imagine a table $0.05/$0.10, it's heads up, you have $1000, they have $10. If you go all in, pre flop, every hand, and they pick the hands they play, no matter how well they pick, they will get a bad beat before they get your money. Now I'm not for a second proposing playing to that extreme, but an aggressive (and selective to maybe top 20% hands) pre flop strategy - surely goes the same way..... Or am I talking bollox? For me the "bankroll" is critical - you can wait until you hit lucky, your opponent can't......

[Valiant23]

Re: Bullying I see your point, as a hypothetical argument, but I don't think I could comfortably play that way.

[laidbackbloke]

Re: Bullying There will be people on here who are better able to advise you on cash games than me, but personally i would agree with everything Frisky said, if you are going to bully players, then i wouldn't do it pre-flop unless i had KK or AA. the time to bully in cash games is post flop when your read of your opponent tells you that they will fold to a decent bet.

I must say in my play I've never seen a 'bully' who is a good player, more likely a crap player who got lucky once or twice - which I know you haven't. Have you?

Learning to do the occasional bit of bullying is essential to improving your game, (especially in tournaments) Bad players put in big bets, raise (or go all-in) with anything without even thinking what their opponents are holding.......... they just hope to make everyone fold . You can usually spot them easily enough and sooner or later someone catch them out and get rid of them. Good players will be selective about when to put the pressure on their opponents, giving them difficult decisions to make. Sometimes you make a bet that is not based on your cards, but based on your read of your opponents hand. Only betting when you are holding the nuts (or a very strong hand) is generally not going to be enough to allow you win tournaments .................... you have to outplay your opponents as well. If you can occasionally make opponents lay down better hands than yours, because you have read them well and outmanoeuvred them, then you will have a bigger stack and be in a stronger position in the tournaments you play, than by just playing on the strength of your cards alone. Which will in turn allow you to bully short stacks more effectively gaining more chips ....... you won't always get it right, but then again .. no-one ever gets it right all the time

[laidbackbloke]

Re: Bullying

But the main part of my thinking - and I'm deliberately taking it to an extreme - imagine a table $0.05/$0.10' date=' it's heads up, you have $1000, they have $10. If you go all in, pre flop, every hand, and they pick the hands they play, no matter how well they pick, they will get a bad beat before they get your money. [/quote']The major flaw in this line of reasoning is that unlike a tournament, in a cash game your opponent can bugger off anytime he pleases. This means they could double up a few times then bugger off, as could the next person and the next person etc etc. so although you would have to win sometime, you could lose a lot then only win a fraction back

[GaF]

Re: Bullying Cheers guys :ok Some food for thought.....

[KevMac]

Re: Bullying I tend to obsercve the table for a while, and note down who folds easily, and if im near or on the button, and theyre still in, then i'll raise enough to make them fold. It usually works for me

[Pocket Lady]

Re: Bullying

I tend to obsercve the table for a while' date=' and note down who folds easily, and if im near or on the button, and theyre still in, then i'll raise enough to make them fold. It usually works for me[/quote'] Yes you've done that to me before when I was playing too tight! :spank

[GaF]

Re: Bullying

Yes you've done that to me before when I was playing too tight! :spank

:lol :lol :lol Cheers KevMac - Good advice :ok

[laidbackbloke]

Re: Bullying Talking of bullying I just played this hand and the guy to my left had been bullying on quite a few hands ............big raises, all-in etc. so i had been hoping to set him up at some point.:D Hand #113723362 at table: Table TH 279 Started: Sun Oct 09 21:32:50 2005 McRae1 is at seat 1 with 20.05 Cav_ is at seat 2 with 40.93 kudlaty is at seat 4 with 61.70 Nikos_KEF is at seat 5 with 38.03 koppy is at seat 6 with 55.80 chode is at seat 7 with 17.25 Ayahuasca is at seat 8 with 79.72 laidback2 is at seat 9 with 32.50 jimbow2 is at seat 10 with 20.51 Cav_ posts the large blind 0.50 McRae1 posts the small blind 0.25 McRae1: --, -- Cav_: --, -- kudlaty: --, -- Nikos_KEF: --, -- koppy: --, -- chode: --, -- Ayahuasca: --, -- laidback2: As, Ah jimbow2: --, -- Pre-flop: kudlaty: Call 0.50 Nikos_KEF: Call 0.50 koppy: Call 0.50 chode: Fold Ayahuasca: Fold laidback2: Raise 3.50 jimbow2: All in McRae1: Fold Cav_: Fold kudlaty: Fold Nikos_KEF: Fold koppy: Fold laidback2: Call 20.51 Flop (Board: 5d, 9s, Jh): Turn (Board: 5d, 9s, Jh, 8d): River (Board: 5d, 9s, Jh, 8d, 7s): Showdown: laidback2 shows: As, Ah (a pair of Aces) jimbow2 shows: Kd, Qc (high card, King) Mainpot: laidback2 wins the pot of 41.12 with a pair of Aces (2.15 rake were taken for this hand) :D :D :D :D :D If he had been paying any attention he would have noticed i wouldn't have raised that much with pish cards .................happily he didn't:ok He was close to making his straight though :eek

[Valiant23]

Re: Bullying

I must say in my play I've never seen a 'bully' who is a good player, more likely a crap player who got lucky once or twice - which I know you haven't. Have you?

Learning to do the occasional bit of bullying is essential to improving your game, (especially in tournaments) Bad players put in big bets, raise (or go all-in) with anything without even thinking what their opponents are holding.......... they just hope to make everyone fold . You can usually spot them easily enough and sooner or later someone catch them out and get rid of them. Good players will be selective about when to put the pressure on their opponents, giving them difficult decisions to make. Sometimes you make a bet that is not based on your cards, but based on your read of your opponents hand. Only betting when you are holding the nuts (or a very strong hand) is generally not going to be enough to allow you win tournaments .................... you have to outplay your opponents as well. If you can occasionally make opponents lay down better hands than yours, because you have read them well and outmanoeuvred them, then you will have a bigger stack and be in a stronger position in the tournaments you play, than by just playing on the strength of your cards alone. Which will in turn allow you to bully short stacks more effectively gaining more chips ....... you won't always get it right, but then again .. no-one ever gets it right all the time

I totally agree llb, what I was trying to say that as a consistent policy it is extremely difficult to pull off. I have, do and will bully after proving myself as a rock (perhaps :lol;) - Dollar up tomorrow night). I find this useful two-fold. It makes other 'bullies' think twice, and when I do bet or play big people will (hopefully) assume I got something big.