Right Play...?

[Evad Black]

I'm pretty new to playing poker, but I like to think that I can play to a reasonable standard - although unfortunately not enough to keep me in the black (that and I was spending way too much time playing rather than studying for my degree) so I'd nto played for a little while, although I've been watching the Poker on Channel 5. Anyways I loaded up my Bet365 account tonight, and joined in their $5000 freeroll. I'd got myself into a very respectable position after the first hour, and was safely keeping my head afloat into the second hour. I'm playing reasonably tight when I'm dealt QhQc. Raise into the pot, and only one other player goes in with me, with him having a slight chip lead. Flop comes Jc6s10d. He bets table minimum, and I call instantly. Turn is Jd, he bets table minimum and I raise him 75% of my bank. He then re-raises me all-in, and I call. He turns over Jh5d, and the river comes 8c, I've lost and am out of the tournament 20 places out of the (albeit small) money. Not that I'm overly bothered about going out, but I was wondering where I went wrong in my play. I'm pretty sure that it wasn't a bad beat, but any advice on where I went wrong in my play would be cool.

[aliensyndm]

Re: Right Play...? OK your initial raise is fine. Now you say on the flop he bets table minimum. I would raise here and find out where you are. Remember you're trying to put him on a hand. How much was your initial raise ? Alot ? A little ? I'm guessing not much as this guy has called with a pants hand. Now the flop....he bets minimum.....I would raise. Hands like AJ, KJ, JQ are in big trouble here. A possible danger hand is J 10. After raising you may find out where you are. If you are re-raised back....does he have J 10 ? (would be a strange had to call a big pre flop raise with tho) Has he called with a small pocket pair and flopped a set ? What does his initial small bet mean ? Weakness ? Or slowplaying a monster ? I would have stuck in a healthy raise on the flop and tried to win the pot there and then. OK the turn is a J. Now he bets minimum again.....now you should only call this bet. If you try and bluff him and represent jacks...he's only gonna call you when he's likely to be beating you. Once you committed 75% of your stack you were pot committed and had to call. This wasn't a bad beat though. This was bad play. All your chips went in when you were behind. I think your first mistake was calling the flop. Here you should raise. You had position advantage as he was first to play. If you had raised and then he called.......he will often check the turn. If he comes out betting the turn after you had raised the flop that's usually a very strong hand so beware. After the jack fell, you should have just called his minimum bet. Now the river comes....if he bets minimum again, you can call. If he sticks in a medium/large bet it's either bluff or he wants paid off. You have to work out which. But you have to recognise situations where you are only gonna get called if beaten. Hence minimum bet on river from him...fine...call. Raise and you are only likley to be called if beaten. Remember a bad beat is when you commit all your chips miles ahead and your opponent catches a very unlikley draw to beat you. Example you have 7s 8c Flop 4d,5s,6h You flopped nut straight and somehow your chips end up all in. Some guy with Ah6h calls you, the turn is Jh, the river is Kh. He's had runner runner hearts and made a flush. 6% chance of that happening. That would be considered a bad beat....but Ive seen FAR worse both live and on the net. Any time there is 2 of one card on the flop be weary. Especially so if it's a card in the "playing zone" like a jack. ie cards people are likely to call with. If you raise a bit with AA and the flop is JJ6 .... some guy moves all in and you call it's not a bad beat, that's bad play. If you raise all in with AA pre flop and some guy calls you and flops trips well then that is a bad beat !

[Evad Black]

Re: Right Play...? Thanks muchly. Like I said I was pretty sure it was bad play on my behalf - looking back on it I should have noticed that with two jacks on the board, and with him having only played table minimum that it was quite likely he had a set of Jacks. Or at the very leats that my two pair of QQJJ wasn't as strong as it seemed to me at the time. My original raise was table minimum raise, and he'd placed the big blind which meant he didn't have that far to go to call me. Thanks muchly for your insight, definitely gives me something to look on - and hopefully remember when I'm back on the tables.

[Doddsy]

Re: Right Play...? Well said Alien, think you've summed it up spot on. If I had played the hand, I would have put in a fairly large raise before the flop, even if it just means picking up the blinds, and once the flop landed, I probably would have stuck in either a large bet or all in with holding the higher pair trying to win the pot there. I would have still went out when the turn landed (if he decided to call) but would have been ahead when the money was in. Don't worry about it El Nino though, look at it as a learning experience

[aliensyndm]

Re: Right Play...? I think you could argue a case for calling a minimum bet on the turn(provided the minimum bet was a low percentage of your stack) to try and catch a queen. If you do and he has a jack...you are gonna bust him. Also you could call a minum bet on river, again provided it's insignificant in relation to the size of your stack. You could be ahead anyway,....if not you get to see his cards and get some information. Obviously you have to be careful you dont get sucked in though. When I say low percentage of your stack I am talking like 2-3 %. Also the guy woudl have to have a stack at least euqal in size to your own to make it worth while calling minimum bet to catch a queen...you need implied odds. The fact he was BB made it far more likely he would call with junk/weaker hand so rememeber that as well.

[Evad Black]

Re: Right Play...? Thanks for all the advice - it seems to have helped, just won a 15 person $2 + $.20 MTT on Bet365.

[Jezza]

Re: Right Play...? Hi El Nino, Not much to add here, alien has it pretty much covered. Just to say that when the J paired on the turn you really want to shut down. There isnt much on that board then that can be giving you action that you have beaten - you should be putting the big raise in on the flop..or if you do slowplay it and just call then you have to give it up when the J pairs and he livens up. Jez