Im offering bankers Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 Re: SA v England one-dayers I was going to put a bet on at betfair for the match not to be completed at 1000/1. But when it says not completed, does it mean the whole 50 overs or does it mean 20 overs for the Duckworth lewis method?? Can anyone help?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swooperman Posted January 30, 2005 Author Share Posted January 30, 2005 Re: SA v England one-dayers Theyre ahead now with 26 gone, and its raining!! I'm not sure what a couple of wickets do to it. Overs arent lost immediately, there is an hours extra available of which we have had 7 minutes so far. But apparently the rain is quite heavy. IMO if Bell is consistently offered at 10/1 during this series I'll be having some of that, particularly if England bat second in the day/nighters. Not having a result here yet, I have to say SA dont look strong IMO, strange selection, the top 3 look ok but then weak, as opposed to England having a top 6/7 but then nothing. Giles cant be relied on in ODIs batting wise, whereas SA have Pollock and Boje down the order, which saved them from embarrasment today. England look a better side overall IMO but you have to worry if they lose early wickets. For England to win at Joburg (not definite yet, but its hammering down!) is a massive boost, only SAs 5th defeat here in 19, the only other defeat batting 1st SA set 306! Any theories? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swooperman Posted January 30, 2005 Author Share Posted January 30, 2005 Re: SA v England one-dayers Match not completed means 20 overs not bowled in each innings (unless bowled out) so we have a result whatever happens here. The 1000/1 quote was probably around 19.4 overs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swooperman Posted January 30, 2005 Author Share Posted January 30, 2005 Re: SA v England one-dayers Apparently Pollock was 66/1 top scorer :eek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Im offering bankers Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 Re: SA v England one-dayers cheers mate just needed to clarify that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyNeth Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Re: SA v England one-dayers BlueSq go the following in the 2nd ODI Wednesday. Any thoughts? England 8/11 South Africa Evens When I last checked both teams about 1.97 on Betfair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swooperman Posted January 31, 2005 Author Share Posted January 31, 2005 Re: SA v England one-dayers Got aload of stats for Bloemfontein, will put them up early evening tonight as no time now! But first thoughts are that SA have won 8 out of 14 there, but only have a 50% record in one dayers, so it is not one of SAs favourite grounds. I'll keep it on this thread. I thought SA would look stronger than they did yesterday and like Dave I thought they would be very difficult to beat at home, but they didnt impress me yesterday. I think it is a big blow to them to lose at Joburg and they need to get momentum quickly to avoid being swept away, but its a lot on the toss in day/nighters, although not as much as over here as the lights are better. Anyway, back later..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Re: SA v England one-dayers To be honest I think this is one to leave alone. SA will surely be better than in Jo'burg with the bat, but England's top 3 didn't really contribute either, so anything could happen. I'd love England to pick Harmison, Anderson and Wharf though, I know who my money would be on there, and they begin with S and end in A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swooperman Posted January 31, 2005 Author Share Posted January 31, 2005 Re: SA v England one-dayers Stan James have everything evenly split @ 5/6 at the moment for the 2nd ODI. BLOEMFONTEIN 2nd ODI Day/Night. Overall record : 20 games. won by side batting 1st-8. won by side batting 2nd-11. No result-1. SAs record: 14 games. Won batting 1st-3. Won batting 2nd-5. Lost batting 1st-3. Lost batting 2nd-3. SAs Day/Night record: Won batting 1st-1. Won batting 2nd-2. Lost batting 1st-1. Lost batting 2nd-2. SA day/night games on this ground: won chasing 208-2 v India lost by 1 run v Australia chasing 203-6 lost by 35 runs chasing 226-8 v Sri Lanka lost by 5 wkts v England setting 262-8 won by 39 runs v India setting 270-4 won chasing 228-8 v Sri Lanka 2 previous meetings on this ground: 1999/2000. SA 184-10. Eng 185-1. England won by 9 wickets. (day game) 1995/6. SA 262-8. Eng 265-5. England won by 5 wkts. (d/n) HS on this ground: SA 310/6 v Australia 1997. Netherlands 314/4 v Namibia 2003 (WC) both day games. There have been 11 scores over 250 (SA 4) and 2 scores over 300 (SA 1) 4 scores under 150 (SA 0) 1 score under 100. There have been 9 individual 100s, but none by either set of players. Only AC Hudson v India 1992/3 for SA. Individual Stats: Kallis 8 matches, HS 59, avg 34. bowling avg.29.2 Gibbs 6 matches HS 79, avg 44.6. Pollock 10 matches, 19 wickets @ 16.84. History seem to favour England here as SA have one of their most inconsistent records on home soil, and England have won the 2 previous games here. But SA were red hot at Joburg and look what happened there! SA dont look strong to me, the top 3 look ok although Gibbs looks out of sorts but he has done relatively well here, but what follows reminds me a bit of when England used to fill their middle-order with bit-part players like Matthew Fleming and Vince Wells, and that didnt work. Kemp didnt look anything with the ball and averages only 16 with the bat this season, Prince is rumoured to be in for his fielding and Bacher is out of position. I'm told Bacher is an accumulator who bowls slow medium dobbers which works on their pitches, but if hes that good why was he playing 10 years ago and not picked in the last 3? And can somebody explain why De Villiers wasnt picked? SA do bat deeper than england however, and Boje and Pollock gave them a chance at Joburg at least, whereas England have a top 7 and nothing else. You wouldnt back Giles to get us home with more than 30 needed b ut you would give Pollock a shot! As a top order England are quite a lot stronger IMO, but if we bat 2nd under lights and lose early wickets in the 'gloaming', I dont fancy us. Therefore I see value in Collingwood and Bell top scorers. Bell was 10/1 in Joburg but I havent seen odds here yet. I fancy England to get off to a quicker start whether they bat 1st or not, as Jones is there to play his shots, and whether you agree with Jones opening or not, there seems little point in only giving him 1 chance at it. Whereas the big 3 SA batsman cant be too confident about the rest of their top order, so wont take as many chances. I dont think you'll get a decent price on Petersen as everybodys on him, but the fact that him and Bell have come into the series fresh and they are better than SAs fresh players will give us the edge IMO. I'll hold out for the odds, but I'm looking at England 1st 15 overs, and possibly opening partnership, Bell or Collingwood top scorer, and betting in running. I think too much depends on the toss in day/night games to bet 1 side outright but England are the better side IMO, but SA will come back hard and as weve all said all along, Pollock in the right conditions can win a match on his own. :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie-chucker Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Re: SA v England one-dayers Cantor quote superiority SA/England first 15 overs at -2 to 2, take your pick of team. Still like Kabir Ali for very nippy accuracy (miss and he hits) and Gough looks in the groove. And for sure Jones will open again, with an obvious licence to give it a go. So England look better placed to get off to a start. (But then Pollock could rip out three in first spell!) I'm with Swoop and shade England on this bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swooperman Posted February 1, 2005 Author Share Posted February 1, 2005 Re: SA v England one-dayers Stan James still go 5/6 both sides, same price 1st 15 and opening partnership, 33/1 tie on the last 2. top England runs: Tresco 11/4, Strauss 7/2, Vaughan 4/1, Jones 9/2, Pietersen 5/1, Collingwood 12/1. Dont know why Bell not quoted as yet as likely to be same side, but batting 2nd under lights I think Collingwoods a good price. same reason why I might have a dabble On Boucher @ 10/1 for SA, Kallis and Gibbs are only 5/2, Smith around 3s and as ive already said I dont really rate the other batsmen. Vaughan may be worth a look again, top scorer at Joburg, could be coming in at end of Pollocks 1st spell, might be good timing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swooperman Posted February 1, 2005 Author Share Posted February 1, 2005 Re: SA v England one-dayers Dont touch Boucher, apparently he may be dropped to accomodate an extra specialist batsman! (whats the excuse for the 3 in front of him then?) De Villiers is virtually certain to make his ODI debut, and Bacher is ousted as the powers that be werent very impressed with his shot selection. De Villiers may keep if they decide to drop Boucher, but I cant help feeling thats harsh! Gibbs is struggling with a groin strain and that is the only way Bacher will survive. Thats good as Gibbs has a decent record here. Weather tomorrow is mostly sunny, high of 87, low 64, humidity 35%. Bloemfontein doesnt appear to be a big scoring ground in day/night games. In only 2 of the 6 previous games have scores been above 230. So that would suggest a low 200 score is about par. Looking at the weather forecast, sunset is 7:11pm. Now I havent checked this but I think SA is 2 hours difference which means that its a 2pm start. So tea is 5pm, resumption 5:30 (?) so the lights will be on from the start of the 2nd innings. Although SA lights are a lot better than the crap we play under over here, the problem batting time is when the natural light fades and the floodlights are merging in, it is easier to bat in total artificial light than a mixture of the 2. 3 sides have won chasing in d/n games here, 2 of them against primarily spin attacks, or at least with no great pace. Only England have won chasing against a pace attack, v SA 265-5, 1995/6. The other 2 were against Sri Lanka and India, so I believe it will be tough batting 2nd. Therefore, imagine England batting 2nd, starting against Pollock and Ntini and possibly struggling against the light, and then Nel comes on. My point is that we could be 3 or 4 down once the change medium pacers come on, which gives Pietersen, Bell and Collingwood a good shout at top England scorer. Pietersen is too short a price IMO, with the emotional homecoming and sledging, although he did well sunday, but he gives the bowlers a chance, moving late across his stumps. Bell is a much safer shout IMO, and Collingwood is used to this by now. I never back 1 team outright in day/nighters because of the toss, but I will have Bell and Collingwood top scorers (Bell 8.0 @ Gamebookers but Stan James went 10s sundat and may do again, Collingwood 12/1 @ Stan James) and I probably will for the other D/N games also. England 15 overs highest score also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swooperman Posted February 2, 2005 Author Share Posted February 2, 2005 Re: SA v England one-dayers Right theory, wrong batsman!! Still, Pietersen would have been an emotional bet, and Collingwood proved his mettle and the faith in backing him and Bell. Eng 270-5. This will be the largest chase in D/N games on this ground if SA are successful, and they have started well, but I still think it will be difficult to keep the run-rate up under lights. If SA are to win, one of Smith, Gibbs and Kallis has to score a ton, as I just cant see the rest getting the runs. 10 minutes ago Stan James had SA favourites @ 8/11, and England @ Evs!! I have to say i'm absolutely flabbergasted by that, it may be that SA win this game but they will have to bat very well and no way in my mind are they favourites!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swooperman Posted February 2, 2005 Author Share Posted February 2, 2005 Re: SA v England one-dayers Dont think my 'England highest 1st 15 overs' bet looks very good mind!! If SA win this they will have done very well, and Smith will have deserved it, because there is problems in SA cricket. Apparently Bacher being picked in the 1st game was on Smiths insistence, and then he played an atrocious shot and the selectors wouldnt allow him to be picked here, so De Villiers came in. Boje was dropped and I'm not sure whose decision that was, but the way Smith spoke before the match it may have been his, but remember that Boje was vice-captain!! Boucher is all at sea because before the test series in India he was VC, and then he was dropped! As I said before I think SA bat a lot further down than England, but alot of it is bit-part players, who are not good enough at either suit, and SA have only 3 decent bats. England dont bat as deep, but theyre batting unit is stronger, as is there bowling man for man. I have a theory that Smith brought Kemp back onto bowl today when he didnt have to to prove that Kemp cant hack it at this level, and he is a selection pushed onto Smith. The toss is unbelievable IMO, all logic said bat in the heat of the day, yet Smith bowled! I've already mentioned batting under lights, and new batsman coming in have it all to do. All the experts cant believe the decision that he made. I have a feeling that this is a 'back me or sack me' plea, as I heard an interview with Pat Symcox who said that after the Cronje affair the selectors have never shown the same amount of faith in captains since, and rule them with an iron rod. SA have tests in Australia this spring and went to India last year, I wouldnt mind betting they'll have a new captain in the summer, but who? As I waffle, Smith and De Villiers out, Gibbs and Kallis at the crease, 56-2. Get your money on England!!! SA are in last chance saloon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swooperman Posted February 2, 2005 Author Share Posted February 2, 2005 Re: SA v England one-dayers 15 overs bet down, Kabir Ali, I ask you...... England 4/6, SA 11/10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swooperman Posted February 2, 2005 Author Share Posted February 2, 2005 Re: SA v England one-dayers The big 2, Gibbs and Kallis still there. 151-2. Century partnership off 125 balls. Classy play by SA, but when (if?) they lose a wicket, how will the others cope. Tresco captaining as Vaughan off pitch since batting. I am getting slightly worried.......... 120 needed off 17 overs, but 1 wicket changes this match. drinks being taken, that normally gets a wicket!! England 6/5, but over 7 an over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyNeth Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 Re: SA v England one-dayers Amazing finish. Any ideas if the bookies will refund bets on this? The tie was never offered as a bet so should be void? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Biscuit Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 Re: SA v England one-dayers Fair play to Bet365, they settled my bet on SA as Win ("Dead Heat of 2") - only problem was, I doubled them up with Juve!! :wall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swooperman Posted February 3, 2005 Author Share Posted February 3, 2005 Re: SA v England one-dayers Jesus, that was close!! If they dont advertise the tie I believe bet is treated as void, well I got my money back off Stan James on that "flabbergasted @ England outsiders @ evens" ill-advised bet!! Honestly never thought SA would get close. Fair play to Kallis and Gibbs, once Smith was gone they had to do lions share. Either the lights arent as bad as reported or it was neutralised by the same batsmen batting through the changes, but fair play to them. On to the 3rd ODI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swooperman Posted February 3, 2005 Author Share Posted February 3, 2005 Re: SA v England one-dayers PORT ELIZABETH, 3RD ODI. This is the ground where Andy Bichel took 7-20 and knocked England out of the 2002/3 World Cup. OVERALL ODI RECORD: played 22, Batting 1st won 13, Batting 2nd won 9. OVERALL DAY/NIGHT RECORD: played 8, Batting 1st won 5, Batting 2nd won3 SA OVERALL RECORD: played 15, won batting 1st 6, won batting 2nd 4, lost batting 1st 3, lost batting 2nd 2. SA DAY/NIGHT RECORD: played 6, won batting 1st 3, won batting 2nd 2, lost batting 2nd 1. There have been 6 scores over 250 overall (2 SA) and 3 over 300 (1 SA, the other 2 against SA) there have also been 3 scores under 150. There has been 1 previous meeting on this ground, SA winning by 64 runs in 1995/6. England played 2 games here in the World Cup, beating Namibia by 55 runs and losing the aforementioned Australia game. INDIVIDUAL STATS at P/E. Kallis 10 matches, HS 98*, avg 46.5. 11 wickets @ 27.18 Gibbs 6 matches, HS 125, avg 42.66 Smith 3 matches, HS 84, avg 37.0 Pollock 10 matches, 14 wickets @ 22.85 There have been 4 individual 100s scored here in ODIs, Gibbs being the only SA player. Certainly in Day/Night matches, P/E doesnt appear to be a particularly high-scoring ground, with 1 exception, but a low 200 score appears to be par in this form of cricket. Below is a list of SAs Day/nighters here together with the score at the loss of the 3rd wicket in the 2nd innings. India 147ao. SA 148/4 (46/3) SA 227/6. Australia 201 (50/3) SA 237/8. Sri Lanka 139/6 (34/3) Rain Reduced Sri Lanka 221ao. SA 223/6 (57/3) Pakistan 335/6. Sa 153ao. (67/3) SA 179/7. WI 163ao. (29/3) The reason why I have noted the score at the fall of the 3rd wicket for the chasing sides is that the best score for 3 wickets is 67. So it appears to be not particularly easy batting early in the 2nd innings under lights, as I harped on about before. The sunset time here is 7:21pm, so the light starts to go relatively early in the 2nd innings, making batting difficult. Gibbs and Kallis made a mockery of this yesterday but I believe they were the only ones likely to do so, England would not have coped in the same scenario IMO. As they batted so long they were accustomed to the light whilst changing, nobody coming in after them coped anywhere near as well. Therefore I again see value in the middle order as top scorers. Collingwood is 13.0 @ Stan James, Bell 8.0 @ Canbet, Pietersen 5.5 generally, and very strangely Giles is 51.0 @ Canbet whereas Wharf is 41.0!! Hes a rabbit isnt he? and hes not likely to play! For the same reason, Pollock and Boucher are 21.0 @ Canbet, but I think there will be early wickets and it is these kind of players who may well be facing the mid-innings bowlers before the openers come back. WEATHER: Partly cloudy, high 75, low 62. 94% humidity. England to have highest score after 15 overs @ 5/6 for me (1 each so far, not quite so good now De Villiers is in to lengthen SAs specialist batsmen) and Bell, Collingwood and Boucher top scores @ small stakes. I will only bet outright in-running after the toss is known. :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie-chucker Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 Re: SA v England one-dayers I'm sticking with the 3 same words. Buy Kabir Ali. 38-40 performance for this 3rd game with Spin. Bowling at the death is pick up wickets time. Think Harmison will come in for Hoggard game 4, therefore Kabir plays. Kabir is learning and part of Fletcher plans IMO. He wd certainly go in above Giles if acceleration needed 5 overs to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swooperman Posted February 4, 2005 Author Share Posted February 4, 2005 Re: SA v England one-dayers You like him, dont you, Pie-Chucker! After the first ball of the last over I was a bit anti-Ali but he pulled it back so fair play. Wasnt overly impressed him bowling the 15th over though, dont they know people have got money riding on this .... :rollin SA must have took that match being tied quite badly in the end, so England on the up for me, but all depends on the toss. I seem to remember this wicket being slow and low in the world cup, so Collingwood to bowl well again. Apparetly Vaughan is fit to play after a virus, but Cricinfo seem to think Harmison coming in for Kabir Ali, sorry Pie-Chucker!! England 15 overs for me, Bell @ 8.00, Collingwood @ 12.0, Giles @ 51.0, Pollock and Boucher @ 21.0, all top scorers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie-chucker Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 Re: SA v England one-dayers Ah, well spotted Swoop: Cricinfo stuff Harmison v my good chum Kabir. Here's my fiver, attached, that says Ali today and Harmy back in Cape Town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexmac Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 Re: SA v England one-dayers Cricinfo.com seem to think that it will Be Harmison who starts in place of Ali. Does everyone reckon that chasing the game is likely to be pretty difficult here? I think I will go for the team who bats first to go on to win this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 Re: SA v England one-dayers One bet for me today, unless I spot anything during the game + that will be a sell of Solanki runs if it's anywhere around 27-28 or higher. Pretty average player anyway, but now gone some time without a ODI (obviously not since Zimbabwe), and only good innings have been when opening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swooperman Posted February 4, 2005 Author Share Posted February 4, 2005 Re: SA v England one-dayers Pie-Chucker, you were right about Ali, would have been a harsh drop anyway IMO. Bit unlucky about Solanki, Dave, I must be honest and say I'm not a massive fan either. England have set SA 267-8. SA 39-0 at the moment. This would be easily the biggest day/nighter chase at Port Elizabeth by a margin and the Talksport guys seem to think the light is pretty bad and the lights are the worst in SA. That sounds promising for new batsmen coming in but we have to get wickets first!! De Villiers given out caught behind, sounds a dodgy decision, maybe the umpire couldnt see it in the light :rollin Boje coming in, not good for my 15 overs bet, England scored 74 in their 15 overs. Dont think it'll be easy to hit quick runs under lights here after just coming in so I am quietly confident England will win. Both teams @ 5/6 Stan James. Historically England should be well safe.......but I'm beginning to think the SA batsman dine regularly on carrots!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swooperman Posted February 4, 2005 Author Share Posted February 4, 2005 Re: SA v England one-dayers 53-1 off 11 overs. ooh errr....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swooperman Posted February 4, 2005 Author Share Posted February 4, 2005 Re: SA v England one-dayers Boje out. SA 4/7, England 5/4 Stan James. SA 86-2 off 18. 15 overs bet down again, thats 1 win, 2 losses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swooperman Posted February 5, 2005 Author Share Posted February 5, 2005 Re: SA v England one-dayers Big knock by Graeme Smith, 1st ODI century by a SA captain, took my money with it. Cant help but have a bit of gruding respect for the man. CAPE TOWN. 3rd ODI, Day Game. OVERALL: 25 matches, won by side batting 1st 17, batting 2nd 8. SA OVERALL: matches 19, won batting 1st 12, won batting 2nd 4, lost batting 1st 1, lost batting 2nd 2. SA have won all 3 day games they have played here, batting 1st 1, chasing 2. SA 140-9, WI 136ao (50 ovs) 1992/3 Pakistan 114ao, SA 115-1 (27.4 ovs) 1997/8 New Zealand 256-9, SA 258-7 (50 ovs) 2000/1 SCORES OVER 250: 8. 6 x SA SCORES OVER 300: 1. SA 354-3 v Kenya 2001/2 SCORES UNDER 150: 9. SCORES UNDER 100: 2. Pak 43ao v SA 1992/3 & WI 54ao v SA 2003/4. Individual 100s: 7 - 3 x SA (Kallis only current player) Individual 5-fors: 2 - (Boje v AUS 2001/2, Kallis v PAK 2002/3) INDIVIDUAL RECORDS: Kallis 13 matches, HS 109*, avg 38.29. 15 wickets @ 26.0 Gibbs 10 matches, HS 28, avg 15.3 Boucher 11 matches, HS 51*, avg 36.0 Pollock 14 matches, 20 wickets @ 21.1 Difficult to predict this, some large scores and also some small ones, too. Smith & Gibbs both averaging 43 in this series. England looked tired IMO last night and I wouldnt be surprised to see this series slipping away now. If Vaughan is fit it will help as he undoubtedly has an inspiring effect as captain, but he has to get the morale back up. I still think SA are operating off 3 & 1/2 batsmen with Smith, Gibbs, Kallis & De Villiers, as I dont see the others making a decisive contribution, so England are stronger in that sense, but SA are more likely to have cameos down the order as they bat deeper. Will probably avoid a main bet here, maybe Collingwood again and England 1st 15 overs as I feel they can afford to take more chances. If pushed, I would back SA. Canbet go SA 1.8, ENG 2.0 :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swooperman Posted February 5, 2005 Author Share Posted February 5, 2005 Re: SA v England one-dayers Pie-Chucker, looks like youre right again! Cricinfo says Harmison coming in for Hoggard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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