The second barrel thread

[LordPalica]

hi guys, Ive come back to holdem (omaha is so tilting :@) and I realised that even microstakes games are toughier than they were in the past. So I have to add some moves to my game. And I decided that first move will be improve my 2nd barreling (+ maybe 3rd barrelin) especially when I dont have made hand. So lets discuss :) I picked up two hands from my todays session. 1. BB: $7.84 (13/0/0.5 after 15 hands) UTG: $11.27 (16/10/8 after 90 hands) CO: $11.63 Hero (BTN): $9.85 SB: $10.65 Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN with 6 :club: 6 :heart: UTG raises to $0.35, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.35, 1 fold, BB calls $0.25 Flop: ($1.10) 3 :club: Q :spade: 7 :club: (3 players) BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $0.90, BB calls $0.90, UTG folds I decided to bet here because I expect that UTG has weak hand (I believe he fires CB with good hand to protect from fd) and my plan is ti fire every turn and so use my position. Turn: ($2.90) 7 :heart: (2 players) BB checks, Hero bets $2.00, BB calls $2 After BBs call his range can be FD,Qx, maybe A7/78/76? Is here good to fire 2nd barrel? River: ($6.90) 7 :spade: (2 players) BB checks, Hero checks Here I just give up. Im good against missed fd and he´s not folding Qx or 7x and the question is if he folds 88-JJ. 2. BTN: $22.48 SB: $10.84 BB: $4.60 (63/0/0.3 after 11 hands) Hero (CO): $9.85 Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is CO with 8 :club: 8 :diamond: Hero raises to $0.35, 2 folds, BB calls $0.25 Flop: ($0.75) 3 :spade: K :heart: 7 :heart: (2 players) BB checks, Hero bets $0.50, BB calls $0.50 I think this is a standard CB. his range can be Kx,fd,7x, pocketpairs and maybe 65/54 for gutshot? Turn: ($1.75) T :diamond: (2 players) BB checks, Hero bets $1.00, BB calls $1 the question is "is this a good turn for 2nd barrel?" This ten probably doesnt help him unless he has AThh or T7? River: ($3.75) 7 :spade: (2 players) BB checks, Hero checks hers a third barrel doesnt make sense because I dont see better hands which fold here (maybe 99 or JJ?) Any thoughts are welcome. Lukas :)

[ThusPrider]

Re: The second barrel thread Hand 1: At microstakes against these nitty opponents (though small sample), I'd probably just check behind. Betting into two opponents at these stakes is too spew. Nits like these even with draws on the flop could check instead of cbetting TP. As played the turn is a terrible card to 2nd Barrel. Any flush draws wont be folding here at the micros and any pair nit called flop wont be folding the turn. You'd want some paint to hit the board for a second barrel to be more sucessful. Hand 2: Betting the flop is standard for value. The second barrel will be too thin for value after that offsuit T hit. Unless you have specific reads opponent is on a draw or fold to a 3rd barrel, id check behind for a cheap showdown and re-assess the river. As played checking behind the river is definately the best play. Your opponent could even put you on a FD and perhaps will call a 3rd barrel with 99 or JJ, but it depends on your image and more information on villian would be helpful.

[LordPalica]

Re: The second barrel thread Okey lets modify first hand and imagine that we are in HU with UTG who checks to us. What is our plan? What hands he fires CB with and what hands he checks with? I would expect that he fires all TP+ hands & fd + maybe all nonpair hands? And goes for ch/c with 88-JJ? In that board texture (Q7377) is good to fire 3rd barrel? because i cant imagine 7x in his range and Qx may be only AQ (maybe KQs?) which I would expect to CB with them

[ThusPrider]

Re: The second barrel thread It will be good to have betting statistics by street. With only 90 hands on villian, we can vaguely presume he is standard nittyish TAG. On a 3Q7ss board and if he was the pre-flop aggressor id expect him to Cbet all FD, Q and A7 as well as 90% of his air hands as this is a very standard c betting board. If he checked this board (still presuming its HU) on the flop, id feel a little suspecious and either he has a small pair or some variation of another pair, however having stats of 16/10 i doubt this will be in his range, but we cant presume that only having 90 hands on him. You have some SD equity and i'd just check behind. With the board reading Q73T7r the 7 on the river doesnt changes the situation little if not at all. Without knowing your stats as the hero i dont know how villian will see your range. Would he see you calling with 7x his PFR? You could of had some combo draw but unless you had a 7 everything else missed the river. Perhaps at higher stakes the river bet would make more sense but at micros i just feel 3 barrel bluffs are just too spew

[LordPalica]

Re: The second barrel thread SB: $14.56 (unknown 60/20 after 5 hands) BB: $6.71 CO: $24.34 Hero (BTN): $24.63 Pre Flop: ($0.37) Hero is BTN with A :club: T :diamond: 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.75, SB calls $0.63, 1 fold Flop: ($1.75) J :spade: 2 :diamond: 2 :club: (2 players) SB checks, Hero bets $1.25, SB calls $1.25 Turn: ($4.25) K (2 players) SB checks, Hero bets $2.50 Is this good spot for 2nd barrel? And if he calls what is our plan at river? give up unless Q/A hit?

[LordPalica]

Re: The second barrel thread Hero (CO): $9.10 BTN: $10.46 SB: $5.24 BB: $16.94 (unknown 68/11 over 20 hands) UTG: $12.54 Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is CO with A 4 UTG calls $0.05, Hero raises to $0.50, 2 folds, BB calls $0.40, UTG calls $0.45 Flop: ($1.55) 2 :spade: 5 :spade: J :diamond: (3 players) BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $1.00, BB calls $1, UTG folds Turn: ($3.55) 6 :spade: (2 players) BB checks, Hero bets $2.00 Is this a good spot for 2nd barrel? I expect him to call really wide at flop. And flush card can be scary for him and may fold all one pair hands+some straight draws?

[LordPalica]

Re: The second barrel thread Hero (SB): $9.33 BB: $10.35 CO: $13.96 BTN: $11.51 (38/0/1.5 after 70 hands, fold to flopCB=80%(4/5), wto SD 19%, AG by streets:1.2/1/6, A fby streets:22%/29%/50%) Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB with T T :spade: 1 fold, BTN calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.50, 1 fold, BTN calls $0.40 Flop: ($1.10) 3 :spade: 8 2 (2 players) Hero bets $0.80, BTN calls $0.80 Standard CB. After call I put him on fd,all sort of PP,8x, maybe A5/A4, Turn: ($2.70) 5 :spade: (2 players) Hero bets $1.80, BTN calls $1.80 turn doesnt change so much unless he´s got A4 or 55. River: ($6.30) 7 (2 players) Hero checks, BTN bets $6.30, Hero folds What to do on river? some kind of small blockingbet and fold to raise? But Im affraid that he is capable of bluffing when he sees a weakness according his river AG & Af.

[ThusPrider]

Re: The second barrel thread

SB: $14.56 (unknown 60/20 after 5 hands) BB: $6.71 CO: $24.34 Hero (BTN): $24.63 Pre Flop: ($0.37) Hero is BTN with A :club: T :diamond: 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.75, SB calls $0.63, 1 fold Flop: ($1.75) J :spade: 2 :diamond: 2 :club: (2 players) SB checks, Hero bets $1.25, SB calls $1.25 Turn: ($4.25) K (2 players) SB checks, Hero bets $2.50 Is this good spot for 2nd barrel? And if he calls what is our plan at river? give up unless Q/A hit?

I think hes probably got a J or something like 88, 77. Unlikely for him to have any draws so the second barrel is fine with the K on the turn. If he doesnt fold I dont think ill ever triple barrel bluff this unknown, unless of course we hit, so wp.

[ThusPrider]

Re: The second barrel thread

Hero (CO): $9.10 BTN: $10.46 SB: $5.24 BB: $16.94 (unknown 68/11 over 20 hands) UTG: $12.54 Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is CO with A 4 UTG calls $0.05, Hero raises to $0.50, 2 folds, BB calls $0.40, UTG calls $0.45 Flop: ($1.55) 2 :spade: 5 :spade: J :diamond: (3 players) BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $1.00, BB calls $1, UTG folds Turn: ($3.55) 6 :spade: (2 players) BB checks, Hero bets $2.00 Is this a good spot for 2nd barrel? I expect him to call really wide at flop. And flush card can be scary for him and may fold all one pair hands+some straight draws?

I dont like Pre flop, if you're gonna play A4s once in a while why raise so big? I'd say with position $0.35 is enough. As played i dont like to cbet two unknown opponents with just a gutshot. I dont think BB's range is too wide as there was also UTG to act and his PFC of your big raise OOP looks quite strong and i'd put him on something like medium pair who won't fold to a 6 if he called the flop.

[ThusPrider]

Re: The second barrel thread

Hero (SB): $9.33 BB: $10.35 CO: $13.96 BTN: $11.51 (38/0/1.5 after 70 hands, fold to flopCB=80%(4/5), wto SD 19%, AG by streets:1.2/1/6, A fby streets:22%/29%/50%) Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB with T T :spade: 1 fold, BTN calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.50, 1 fold, BTN calls $0.40 Flop: ($1.10) 3 :spade: 8 2 (2 players) Hero bets $0.80, BTN calls $0.80 Standard CB. After call I put him on fd,all sort of PP,8x, maybe A5/A4, Turn: ($2.70) 5 :spade: (2 players) Hero bets $1.80, BTN calls $1.80 turn doesnt change so much unless he´s got A4 or 55. River: ($6.30) 7 (2 players) Hero checks, BTN bets $6.30, Hero folds What to do on river? some kind of small blockingbet and fold to raise? But Im affraid that he is capable of bluffing when he sees a weakness according his river AG & Af.

I think this is well played. Although he could be bluffing, his play does make sense with him being very passive on early streets mainly by calling and checking and betting out when he hits his draws. Of course he could be bluffing but all draws have hit. A small bet could even look weak here as a block bet so save your money and just check the river and fold to a big bet like here. Remember youve only invested about $3 into this pot, and have to invest twice as much to call the river, save your money for better spots!

[LordPalica]

Re: The second barrel thread Ok another hand :) btw I would appreciate if more players would post hands in this thread :) Hero (BTN): $19.10 SB: $4.38 BB: $13.32 (villain is unknown this was my 3rd hand at that table) UTG: $24.65 CO: $10.85 Pre Flop: ($0.30) Hero is BTN with J :spade: A :club: 1 fold, CO calls $0.20, Hero raises to $0.80, 1 fold, BB calls $0.60, 1 fold Flop: ($1.90) 9 :diamond: 5 :spade: 5 (2 players) BB checks, Hero bets $1.40, BB calls $1.40 Turn: ($4.70) A :diamond: (2 players) BB checks, Hero checks here I rather check instead of 2nd barreling because I dont want him to fold some kind of PP or 9x. And my plan is to bet on river, I think it may looks like bluffing. River: ($4.70) Q :club: (2 players) BB bets $4.70, Hero ??? Oooop but what now?

[LordPalica]

Re: The second barrel thread Both villains are unknown. CO: $21.90 BTN: $3.33 SB: $17.90 Hero (BB): $21.25 UTG: $9.00 UTG posts a big blind ($0.20) Pre Flop: ($0.50) Hero is BB with J :club: K :diamond: UTG checks, CO calls $0.20, 1 fold, SB calls $0.10, Hero checks Flop: ($0.80) 7 :club: Q :spade: K (4 players) SB checks, Hero bets $0.60, UTG calls $0.60, CO calls $0.60, SB folds Turn: ($2.60) 2 :club: (3 players) Hero bets $1.80, UTG calls $1.80, CO folds River: ($6.20) 5 :diamond: (2 players) Hero bets $1.80, UTG raises to $4.40, Hero ??? Whats the best line on river? All draws missed so worse hands that can call me are Kx, Qx? Probably I should go for ch/c, right? Maybe he would bluff with missed draw?