Pub poker

[klaymore79]

Looking for a bit of advice here. My local pub has been taken over by a mate of mine (thank god - he's lowered the prices!!) and unlike the previous landlord who couldn't give a toss as long as he was paid, is trying to get things going to get more folk through the doors during the week. He's asked me and a few mates to hold a weekly poker night, which we'll be starting tomorrow (Thursday) with some home equipment, with a view to expanding beyond the expected 2 tables and using the whole lounge. However, he mentioned something about £100 being the max payout in pubs, and when I looked into it online, I missed the gambling commission's ruling on pub poker - £100 max stakes daily, £5 max per person, £100 max prize money. For the time being, we will, of course, be sticking to this, as we don't want to jeopardise his newly acquired license. But does anyone have experience of pub games that are bigger, with better prize money, etc? Are there ways around it at all? Also, just for example, I know that some rules go out the window for charity events. If we held a tournament with half the prize fund going to charity, could we disregard these rules? All help will be much appreciated.

[SteveO]

Re: Pub poker There's a regular £20 game in my local and gets on average about 20 runners. It's only advertised by the guy who is running it on his facebook page. Never had any trouble with the old bill, as long as the game doesn't get too big and there's no cash on the table can't ever see them being too interested to be honest.

[ColU_FC]

Re: Pub poker

There's a regular £20 game in my local and gets on average about 20 runners. It's only advertised by the guy who is running it on his facebook page. Never had any trouble with the old bill, as long as the game doesn't get too big and there's no cash on the table can't ever see them being too interested to be honest.

Agreed but I'll add one but. The most likely scenario where you get into trouble is this. A player that is part of the game feels aggrieved for some reason. They decide to stir it up. They know the gaming law. They report the game anonymously to the old bill and the local council. One or both attend on a game night incognito. Evidence gathered. The council take away the landlord's licence. IMHO opinion it ain't worth the risk. You can still have good fun running an MTT with a max pot of £100. Indeed, I'd suggest the higher up the stakes go the more likely the above scenario becomes.

Also' date=' just for example, I know that some rules go out the window for charity events. If we held a tournament with half the prize fund going to charity, could we disregard these rules[/quote'] The is no exemption in the rules for charity games.

[ColU_FC]

Re: Pub poker More info here: http://www.punterslounge.com/forum/f63/gambling-act-2005-a-53298/

[klaymore79]

Re: Pub poker That's a bit out of date now I think. I was searching, and found http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/pdf/PokerInPubs%20-%20July%202009.pdf Bit more up to date, after poker in pubs got big but the guidelines were hazy. This is what I've been looking at most. We'll have to see how it goes I guess, and see what other pubs are doing in the area, I know there are a few.

[glennop]

Re: Pub poker As it says on the gambling commision website: "The maximum stake per player is £5 per game, and the combined stakes for your premises should not exceed £100". A friend of mine organised a charity game at his local football club, £20 +£5 buy-in, with the £5 going to the charity, and was told by the council they would be prosecuted if they did not pay £25K for a gambling licence, he even got it advertised in Poker Player mag, but had to cancel it. I'd say if you want a pub game with stakes higher than £100 max, don't advertise it anywhere, and only include people who won't spill the beans when you've taken their money.

[klaymore79]

Re: Pub poker Well, I figure at £5 buy-in its 20 folk max, and the more folk in, the smaller the buy-in. The landlord would probably not mind topping up the pot a few quid to make it to £100, he's already said he'll get some pies and stuff for the players. I estimated the most we could get in the lounge for a game would be 40, mibbes 50 at a push, so £2 buy-in to win part of £100 would be a good draw I guess.

[Vilamoura04]

Re: Pub poker I play pub games where the stakes are higher than that but its invitees only and on quiet nights out in the back. We arent doing any harm, but you do have to be careful, like said above it only takes one loser to get the hump which is easily done and it can all go very pear shaped very quickly. It means you cant invite just anyone in which means that some nights you havent got enough players to make a game worthwhile. So to be honest I would say just stick to £5/player £100 max and have a laugh and put it down to practice. Go to the casino if you want some serious humourless higher stake action.

[Valiant23]

Re: Pub poker There are a few members on here that are members of a poker club that runs out of a pub (I think its called the middle club). I'll PM a couple of em and point them towards this thread and see if they can shed any light on how they do it.

[klaymore79]

Re: Pub poker Went OK last night, 13 players, 2 tables, some good banter, and the promise of more players next week. Oh, and I won!!

[atkinsonj]

Re: Pub poker :clap:clap Well done :clap:clap Where is your local? any where near newcastle??

[klaymore79]

Re: Pub poker Naw mate, it's in Scotland, near Motherwell. The Carfin Vaults.

[klaymore79]

Re: Pub poker Only 9 folk played last night, :( I couldn't play cos I was sick, but we were expecting more than that. Anyone got any ideas to help advertise it a bit? Am gonna get posters made up, and am encouraging everyong I can to spread the word, but I'm not sure that's enough.

[SteveO]

Re: Pub poker

Only 9 folk played last night, :( I couldn't play cos I was sick, but we were expecting more than that. Anyone got any ideas to help advertise it a bit? Am gonna get posters made up, and am encouraging everyong I can to spread the word, but I'm not sure that's enough.

It's really difficult mate to get pub poker off the ground. I've tried in the past but it just wasn't worth the hassle. The regular poker players would rather multitable online and the locals would rather play 3card brag or Don:sad

[klaymore79]

Re: Pub poker I know a few guys who play, used to have a home game every week, and some of the guys playing the past couple of weeks have promised more folk, so hopefully it should grow. Plus I think I may crash some other local nights and spread the word a little.

[morlspin]

Re: Pub poker

Only 9 folk played last night, :( I couldn't play cos I was sick

That there is your problem mate Your meant to be the one who promotes and gets the games off the ground but you never played cos you were sick? I ran a pub poker league every 2 weeks for 3 yrs and never missed a single one (bar vegas poker holidays) and was always the 1st port of call for any players if they had any issues or questions. If people see the organisers are slack at attending then they will also stay away if not 100% convinced.

[klaymore79]

Re: Pub poker I'm not the one totally organising it tho, just the one with enough brains to work the logistical stuff out. Other guys will be there every week, and they're officially in charge. Also, me and the missus just had a wee girl, so are living on my wage, which is stretched thin as it is, so I can't afford to be there every time, and I told the landlord such when we talked about it. But I want to see it get off the ground at least, so am prepared to put a bit of time into it.

[swampster]

Re: Pub poker you could always join an outfit like Redtooth Poker (www.redtoothpoker.co.uk) who supply all the equipment and set-up stuff you'll need. then you can get your pub regulars to qualify for regional and national finals. The only thing is, you'll be playing for points, but the big bucks come in the regionals/nationals where cash prizes are awarded.

[AndyBee]

Re: Pub poker One way round this possibly ....is to add a league bonus...... lets say you are now get 30 players once a week each paying £5 keep the prize money to £100 paid to say the top 5 players the extra £50 goes into a league fund and of the 30 players you get 30 points for winning and 1 point for going out first etc when the league fund reaches a preset limit say £900 the league is then re set and starts again the £900 is than used for a private night out a local casino for the top 9 players each given £100 spending money with the landlord picking up the bill for a mini bus taxi. If your near a bigger casino you my be able to do a deal may be they could run a private sit and go for say £40 of each players money they provide the dealer and then entry to their big saturday torney £50 +£10 or you could just play a set of say 10 X £10 sit an goes with your party The above system rewards the players that are good and play regularly. it gives 9 players a chance to go to a casino with £100 spending money and saver the atmosphere of a real casino which they might never do on there own and would give your top 9 players a chance to take on the big boys. I live in France but am from Manchester when i go back home a pup runs a system like above they average 25 players at £5 a time .... they pay out £100 top 3 places the rest goes into a christmas trip to a manchester casino .... players like me that or only there for 1 week still feel they can play and not feel ripped off as a one off and the regulars who stay loyal get the benifit of a good christmas night out I usualy come to manchester just be for christmas to visit family ..... so when i played and paid my £5 it was interesting as it was the last night before the final 9 players were decided ..... there were 3 or 4 players that were viaing for the 9th place on the bus .... you could use that against them as they were scared to go out early as they needed the points more than the money .... i pushed a few times against a player who was desperate for points ...... well i finish 3rd for £20 which covered my night out on beer and free sanwiches (comps of the landlord) hope that may be of help Andy Bee :rollin

[klaymore79]

Re: Pub poker Appreciate the suggestion, but it looks like its dieing on its arse already. It's a Celtic pub, and thanks to their Europa Cup status, they'll be playing on a Thursday night, which means most of the players won't be bothered with poker. So I ain't gonna bother with it any more. Lasted all of 5 weeks before this happened, and the lounge we use is going to be showing the game instead of being kept for poker as promised. Feck it, I'll save my money for NFL London.

[shane837]

Re: Pub poker the way around this is see whos got cash on poker sites transfer it p2p to some 1 running it payouts goes back same way p2p to winning places can play any stakes u like as no cash as changed hands in the pub no payout limit . So u can run a £10+ buyin games and payout more than £100 a day.. so u got pokersites p2p neteller paypal moneybookers bank transfers as long as money dont change hands on the pub premises nothing law can do about it....

[conarya]

Re: Pub poker

The is no exemption in the rules for charity games.

Not strictly true.... Charity games can be played for any buy in as long as the event is classed as prize gaming and not equal chance gaming. In reality this means all the money is going to the charity - costs for organising the event & the players win prizes rather than £'s.... The event cannot be for commercial gain.

[conarya]

Re: Pub poker

the way around this is see whos got cash on poker sites transfer it p2p to some 1 running it payouts goes back same way p2p to winning places can play any stakes u like as no cash as changed hands in the pub no payout limit . So u can run a £10+ buyin games and payout more than £100 a day.. so u got pokersites p2p neteller paypal moneybookers bank transfers as long as money dont change hands on the pub premises nothing law can do about it....

Interesting take on the rules but this is a very grey area. The UKIPT in Edinburgh just had online reg & payouts for their event recently but they still required a temporary gaming permit. Pubs are required by law to record the buy in & payout for the poker they hold whether the money changes hands in their venue or not is irrelevant. Not many licensees will be happy to gamble with their licenses.... & how many players really want the hassle of transferring money before they head to their local for a game of poker???

[conarya]

Re: Pub poker

One way round this possibly ....is to add a league bonus...... lets say you are now get 30 players once a week each paying £5 keep the prize money to £100 paid to say the top 5 players the extra £50 goes into a league fund and of the 30 players you get 30 points for winning and 1 point for going out first etc when the league fund reaches a preset limit say £900 the league is then re set and starts again the £900 is than used for a private night out a local casino for the top 9 players each given £100 spending money with the landlord picking up the bill for a mini bus taxi. If your near a bigger casino you my be able to do a deal may be they could run a private sit and go for say £40 of each players money they provide the dealer and then entry to their big saturday torney £50 +£10 or you could just play a set of say 10 X £10 sit an goes with your party The above system rewards the players that are good and play regularly. it gives 9 players a chance to go to a casino with £100 spending money and saver the atmosphere of a real casino which they might never do on there own and would give your top 9 players a chance to take on the big boys. I live in France but am from Manchester when i go back home a pup runs a system like above they average 25 players at £5 a time .... they pay out £100 top 3 places the rest goes into a christmas trip to a manchester casino .... players like me that or only there for 1 week still feel they can play and not feel ripped off as a one off and the regulars who stay loyal get the benifit of a good christmas night out I usualy come to manchester just be for christmas to visit family ..... so when i played and paid my £5 it was interesting as it was the last night before the final 9 players were decided ..... there were 3 or 4 players that were viaing for the 9th place on the bus .... you could use that against them as they were scared to go out early as they needed the points more than the money .... i pushed a few times against a player who was desperate for points ...... well i finish 3rd for £20 which covered my night out on beer and free sanwiches (comps of the landlord) hope that may be of help Andy Bee :rollin

I've heard of a few people doing something similar. Again it's a 'grey' area. I would say this one is probably legal as it's turning the nightly poker event into a league format which can then be carried forward to a casino for a 'regional final' there is no longer a linked gaming issue with pubs holding a final in a casino so you could technically play for the rolled over money.... Only real concern would be all the money sitting in the pub....