morlspin Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Taken from http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/news/Poker-club-close-doors-weeks/article-1040893-detail/article.html NOTTINGHAM poker club Dusk Till Dawn is "highly likely" to be shutting its doors in two weeks' time. Rob Yong, owner of DTD, said: "It's very saddening after all the hard work that myself and my staff have put into the club but it's highly likely we'll be closing." If the club shuts it will result in over 100 people being made redundant. The controversial club opened its doors less than two years ago in late 2007, becoming the first legal poker-only club by obtaining a casino licence. This was contested by the Big Three casino chains – Stanley's, Gala and Grosvenor – who feared that it would spark the growth of more poker-only clubs. The casino licence has become a burden for the club as it is recognised as a full casino despite not hosting table games such as blackjack or roulette. This means that the company is unable to claim back VAT on its £3.4 million refurbishment and is subject to new gaming duty laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morlspin Posted June 2, 2009 Author Share Posted June 2, 2009 Re: DTD could close soon????? A post from Rob Yong on another forum Hi guys, i don't want to get into a Q & A / debate about this, but i'll post once to put everyone in the picture. Nick is away for a week and we both agreed that we would get last week's "festival of doom" out of the way and we would look at things objectively when he get's back, with all the facts and figures on the table. Things are up and down in business and noone forces anyone to invest in a project, the government cannot make laws for Dusk Till Dawn, we are the only one of its kind but we made the decision to do this and with that we must take the conseqences "on the chin". I does look like the Nottingham Evening Post have jumped the gun a bit, there is no chance we will be closing in the next few weeks but it is true that the medium and long term future of Dusk Till Dawn is in question, and one of these options is shutting the doors, as it would be cheaper to do this and pay the lease costs on an empty building, than keep it open. When we budgeted this project, we knew we would have to carry the addional running costs such as licencing fees and complaince procedures., but we seem to have caught in the middle of other stuff asscoaited with being a full licenced casino, there are 3 main problems; 1. The VAT hit us with additional costs catergoring our 50 poker tables and the space they take, as effectively 50 roulette tables, therefore we cannot claim VAT back on almost all of our start up, re-fit and running costs, becuase effectively we have a hige space dedicated to gaming. 2. Our business rates have recently been tripled by the Counil, we are now paying the same rates as a full casino with 50 tables 3 The recent "poker tax" legislation on MTT/STT juice and cash game rake DTD has been more successful that we budgeted in terms of revenues, we never expected 1300 footfall on a regular week and the monthly/third party events have exceeded all our forecasts, this has been due to a lot of hard work put in by the DTD staff, however, I think many of us feel like we are just "flogging a dead horse" due to the additional taxation costs ie. as soon as we get some success - something else goes wrong. We all like challenges, but the fight to even open the place took a lot out of everyone, including me, and getting hit with more bad news continually - which is out of our control, is very frustrating. As the moment, some of us feel a little "punchdrunk" - especially me, so we need some time to do some logical thinking, there will be no knee jerks reactions over the coming weeks and there is no chance that we will consider anything that is not 100% legal, it's time to take stock after a whirlwind few years and whatever happens, I am especially proud of everyone that helped us to open the doors in the place. Thanks for your comments, Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Puntalot Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Re: DTD could close soon????? :sad :sad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhornet Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Re: DTD could close soon????? That is so f*****g sad to see:sad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Re: DTD could close soon????? Sounds like bad news. :sad I value honesty, and I'm impressed by how honest Rob Yong seems to be about the situation in that post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jones12345 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Re: DTD could close soon????? bloody typical of our goverment make em pay massive taxes and instead of any compromise,they'd the place rather shut down :sad:sad:sad:sad:sad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sasas57 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Re: DTD could close soon????? typical support from local council and goverment :spank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swampster Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Re: DTD could close soon????? might have to dust my map of the midlands off and drive up there soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulioArca Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Re: DTD could close soon????? This is a bad day for all poker players, I was rather hoping they would open another one closer to home not close the doors! We get the government we deserve I suppose........:@ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillHicks Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Re: DTD could close soon????? Poor show, taxman kills what could be a goose laying golden eggs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morlspin Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 Re: DTD could close soon????? OFFICIAL DTD PRESS RELEASE Dear DTD Employees and Members, Following on from some recent speculation, rumour and misquotes, I would like to make it absolutely crystal clear that there is no chance of us closing in the near future, or trading unlicensed to avoid paying higher taxes. In reality, closing the doors would probably never happen, as a number of companies have registered an interest to acquire us, should we ever feel that the "struggle" gets too much! When we chose to take the legal route by applying for a full casino license, we budgeted for all of the additional costs of operating legally, such as licensing fees, extra security measures and the employment of a dedicated compliance officer. Unfortunately, because we chose this path, we have recently become "caught in the crossfire" between the authorities and the casino industry. Consequently, we now face major tax increases in the form of; 1. VAT - this is now based on our total gaming area, so our 46 poker tables are treated exactly the same as having 46 roulette tables – now that is a super casino! Therefore, VAT is not reclaimable on almost all of our running costs, including any capital expenditure spent on the building. 2. Business Rates - these have literally gone through the roof and we are now paying the same rates as a 22,000sqft fully equipped casino. It has been indicated that this re-evaluation was prompted by another casino objecting to the level of rates that we were previously paying. 3.Gaming Duty - the appropriately nicknamed "Poker Tax" is now payable on all tournament registration fees and cash game charges, unlike a full casino, poker is 90% of our income and this new tax is applied to all of our poker revenues - whether we make a profit or not. Despite these setbacks, it will still be "business as usual" at DTD; however, Nick and I will be considering the options as we move ahead. We also intend to consult our members and employees for their views at a future date. Thankfully we are in a good financial position, whereby there is no pressure to make any hasty decisions, but the reality is that we must address these significantly increased costs. Furthermore, we must also factor in the probability of more tax increases in the future, as the authorities continue to target the UK casino sector. Cheers, Rob PS. Last week's DTD Grand Slam overlays will have no effect on our future plans - at least the cash goes directly back into the poker community! I am certain that we will be more successful in the future. This was our first attempt and many venues would be pleased with a 194 field for a £1000k buy-in, especially taking into account the WSOP changed their dates and the market leading £1000 GUKPT took place just a week earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadken Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Re: DTD could close soon????? Its the society we live in nowadays, pure greed on the goverments and councils part, well they need their porn films and there houses and everything in them , paid for somehow, cant drop their standards of living. They dont understand that they need the buisnesses to keep the country going and that by killing them, its actually going to make things worse, who are the dumbos? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jones12345 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Re: DTD could close soon????? OFFICIAL DTD PRESS RELEASE Dear DTD Employees and Members, Following on from some recent speculation, rumour and misquotes, I would like to make it absolutely crystal clear that there is no chance of us closing in the near future, or trading unlicensed to avoid paying higher taxes. In reality, closing the doors would probably never happen, as a number of companies have registered an interest to acquire us, should we ever feel that the "struggle" gets too much! When we chose to take the legal route by applying for a full casino license, we budgeted for all of the additional costs of operating legally, such as licensing fees, extra security measures and the employment of a dedicated compliance officer. Unfortunately, because we chose this path, we have recently become "caught in the crossfire" between the authorities and the casino industry. Consequently, we now face major tax increases in the form of; 1. VAT - this is now based on our total gaming area, so our 46 poker tables are treated exactly the same as having 46 roulette tables – now that is a super casino! Therefore, VAT is not reclaimable on almost all of our running costs, including any capital expenditure spent on the building. 2. Business Rates - these have literally gone through the roof and we are now paying the same rates as a 22,000sqft fully equipped casino. It has been indicated that this re-evaluation was prompted by another casino objecting to the level of rates that we were previously paying. 3.Gaming Duty - the appropriately nicknamed "Poker Tax" is now payable on all tournament registration fees and cash game charges, unlike a full casino, poker is 90% of our income and this new tax is applied to all of our poker revenues - whether we make a profit or not. Despite these setbacks, it will still be "business as usual" at DTD; however, Nick and I will be considering the options as we move ahead. We also intend to consult our members and employees for their views at a future date. Thankfully we are in a good financial position, whereby there is no pressure to make any hasty decisions, but the reality is that we must address these significantly increased costs. Furthermore, we must also factor in the probability of more tax increases in the future, as the authorities continue to target the UK casino sector. Cheers, Rob PS. Last week's DTD Grand Slam overlays will have no effect on our future plans - at least the cash goes directly back into the poker community! I am certain that we will be more successful in the future. This was our first attempt and many venues would be pleased with a 194 field for a £1000k buy-in, especially taking into account the WSOP changed their dates and the market leading £1000 GUKPT took place just a week earlier. thats great news for now,but still looks bleak for the future :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulioArca Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Re: DTD could close soon????? I wonder if someone should petition number 10 ? Write to your MP all of the good people of Nottingham, start robbing the rich to give to the poor (poker players)..... Start an online petition against this injustice.....:spank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Re: DTD could close soon????? Such a shame, I feel sorry for the strippers in the club opposite. How are they to survive without any punters flush with cash from the poker tables. They'll go on the game most prob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swampster Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Re: DTD could close soon????? I wonder if someone should petition number 10 ? Write to your MP all of the good people of Nottingham, start robbing the rich to give to the poor (poker players)..... Start an online petition against this injustice.....:spank I think Gordon Brown's got enough on his plate at the moment ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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