Samba_SamPa Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Gonna post a hand up until the action arrives at me on the turn, and throw it open as to what you would do, and why :ok - as I think this area of my game could do with improvement... Action so far, I made a standard raise from mp with AQo. UTG who had limped was only caller. I missed flop, but UTG checked so I C-bet 225 into 375 pot, which UTG called... ** Hand # 2448510507 starting - 2009-02-26 23:28:09 ** $150,000 Qualifier[2646454]:Table 1 [Multi Table Hold 'em] (50.00|100.00 NL - MTT) Real Money mauzeris sitting in seat 2 with 4252.50 Toffee_Pete sitting in seat 3 with 3530.00 turbiasque sitting in seat 4 with 2431.25 CoronaKing sitting in seat 5 with 4470.00 Bryneby sitting in seat 6 with 2925.00[Dealer] Berto40 sitting in seat 8 with 3648.75 TYLERdurdn sitting in seat 9 with 2455.00 ovinho sitting in seat 10 with 2375.00 Berto40 posted the small blind - 25.00 TYLERdurdn posted the big blind - 50.00 ** Dealing cards to Toffee_Pete: :Qh:, :Ac: ovinho called - 50.00 mauzeris folded Toffee_Pete raised to 150.00 turbiasque folded CoronaKing folded Bryneby folded Berto40 folded TYLERdurdn folded ovinho called - 150.00 ** Dealing the flop: :8s:, :9c:, :Kd: ovinho checked Toffee_Pete bet - 225.00 ovinho called - 225.00 ** Dealing the turn: :Qd: ovinho checked Toffee_Pete.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulioArca Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Re: Tourney Strat: 4th & 5th street betting I think I would check for two reasons - one to keep the pot small(ish) and two to see what he does on the river. There are a lot of hands that utg could be beating you with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanfaz Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Re: Tourney Strat: 4th & 5th street betting Check behind definately, then call the river unless the bet is very big or value bet after a check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhornet Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Re: Tourney Strat: 4th & 5th street betting Interestingly, I would fire a second bullet here. From UTG's perspective, Samba raised a limper. That puts him on (probably) some type of hand but doesn't scream strength necessarily. The flop is one that could easily hit or miss both. UTG does the regular check to the raiser and Samba does the regular c-bet. In UTG's position, unless I had undercards, i'd call the bet on the flop. When UTG checks the turn, I think I want to find out where I am. Nothing that has happened so far tells me a thing other than UTG has a piece of this or a draw. I would bet out around 5-600. If he calls (for 25% of his stack) you will have an idea that he has you probably beaten. If he raises he definitely has you beaten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanfaz Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Re: Tourney Strat: 4th & 5th street betting Interestingly, I would fire a second bullet here. From UTG's perspective, Samba raised a limper. That puts him on (probably) some type of hand but doesn't scream strength necessarily. The flop is one that could easily hit or miss both. UTG does the regular check to the raiser and Samba does the regular c-bet. In UTG's position, unless I had undercards, i'd call the bet on the flop. When UTG checks the turn, I think I want to find out where I am. Nothing that has happened so far tells me a thing other than UTG has a piece of this or a draw. I would bet out around 5-600. If he calls (for 25% of his stack) you will have an idea that he has you probably beaten. If he raises he definitely has you beaten. Sorry but i hate this. You don't have to bet to see where you are, you will find out on the river for free or less than 500 if you want. 5-600 is a huge amount of chips to speculate with here. Basically, by firing the 2nd bullet, you might as well have missed the queen, because nothing worse than a Q is calling this bet, so its just a bluff. If you check behind, and he checks the river, you can assume you're ahead alot of the time. And it cost you nothing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 Re: Tourney Strat: 4th & 5th street betting Thanks for the replies so far. I was going to leave it a little longer, see if others wanted to contribute but the difference in opinion is interesting. I done what Hornet suggested, and what Sean is so against. The pot is now 825, and I bet out 525. My reason being I couldn't think of a hand with a K that gets limped UTG. AK, KK would be raised with... MAYBE KQ gets limped, but that's one hand including a K that is beating me - that was my opinion. There's plenty of hands with Aces that could be limped with UTG (not that necessarily I would, but there's plenty of players who have to play their Aces) - I'm thinking AJ and down over. So I'm figuring he could have A9, could have A8, or a middle pair, which obviously includes 88 and 99, which would have me beat all ends up. If he has AJ, AT, A9, A8 and is drawing to a better hand then I wanted to charge him the incorrect odds to continue. If I had just checked behind here, then I am giving him a free card if he is drawing. If he calls and bets the river, or raises here, then I am out of there, confident I am behind and still with over 25BBs remaining. ** Hand # 2448510507 starting - 2009-02-26 23:28:09 ** $150,000 Qualifier[2646454]:Table 1 [Multi Table Hold 'em] (50.00|100.00 NL - MTT) Real Money mauzeris sitting in seat 2 with 4252.50 Toffee_Pete sitting in seat 3 with 3530.00 turbiasque sitting in seat 4 with 2431.25 CoronaKing sitting in seat 5 with 4470.00 Bryneby sitting in seat 6 with 2925.00[Dealer] Berto40 sitting in seat 8 with 3648.75 TYLERdurdn sitting in seat 9 with 2455.00 ovinho sitting in seat 10 with 2375.00 Berto40 posted the small blind - 25.00 TYLERdurdn posted the big blind - 50.00 ** Dealing cards to Toffee_Pete: :Qh:, :Ac: ovinho called - 50.00 mauzeris folded Toffee_Pete raised to 150.00 turbiasque folded CoronaKing folded Bryneby folded Berto40 folded TYLERdurdn folded ovinho called - 150.00 ** Dealing the flop: :8s:, :9c:, :Kd: ovinho checked Toffee_Pete bet - 225.00 ovinho called - 225.00 ** Dealing the turn: :Qd: ovinho checked Toffee_Pete bet - 525.00 ovinho called - 525.00 ** Dealing the river: :6d: ovinho checked Toffee_Pete........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanfaz Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Re: Tourney Strat: 4th & 5th street betting Well obviously as i said above i really don't like your line on the turn. Your one and only option on the river is to check behind, because only and absolute fish is calling with a hand you beat! I mean, i don't know what kind of players you are playing here but theres no way you can be winning against a decent player. Even if he did have a 9, he would have folded on the turn unless he had say, the 9d7d. If so, he got there on the end anyway........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 Re: Tourney Strat: 4th & 5th street betting Out of interest Sean, what range do you put him on, given the betting action so far? What hands is he beating me with that would limp UTG? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanfaz Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Re: Tourney Strat: 4th & 5th street betting Out of interest Sean, what range do you put him on, given the betting action so far? What hands is he beating me with that would limp UTG? What is the buy in, what is the site, and do you have any knowledge of this player's game? This question cannot be answered without these answers........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Re: Tourney Strat: 4th & 5th street betting I hate AQ and AJ and a lot of the time ditch the hand as they are so difficult to play when you have missed. Pre flop you may have made a mistake by pricing the limper in maybe a raise to 200 there. Post flop I hate the board and his check means nothing to me as it could be weakness or strength (flopped set) So I am torn here but I dont see any reason to build the pot without a hand so would probably check behind. His check to the Q turn now says weakness I cannot narrow him down but I am discounting 88 99 now and depending on the quality of the tourney/player it is possible he has TT or JJ and has played it small oop but now has a gutshot and calls but if he is really bad I wouldn't discount A8 A9 (maybe AJ AT), either way I think you are ahead on the turn. River is a brick as no way he was flush drawing I'd probably do a thin value on the river 700-900 :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanfaz Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Re: Tourney Strat: 4th & 5th street betting WASP - that is assuming that we checked the flop, they UTG limper c/c the flop and the turn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 Re: Tourney Strat: 4th & 5th street betting What is the buy in, what is the site, and do you have any knowledge of this player's game? This question cannot be answered without these answers........ It was just a sat to the Sunday $150k on Microgaming - $6.50 buy-in. The Villain had been in a few pots, and had showed down a couple losing hands, a couple winning hands (one was AQ, can't remember the other one now). He hadn't been aggressive in any of them. My own table image I think was one of TAG - I had only entered 4 pots, and played them aggressively - showing down winners (AA and AK) twice for decent 1k pots, and 2 I won w/o showdown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanfaz Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Re: Tourney Strat: 4th & 5th street betting He's probably a very bad player. He could have anything here and after the call on the turn i think you should definately just check behind on the river - my guess is KQ or KJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Re: Tourney Strat: 4th & 5th street betting WASP - that is assuming that we checked the flop' date=' they UTG limper c/c the flop and the turn![/quote'] what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanfaz Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Re: Tourney Strat: 4th & 5th street betting you said you would check the flop, and value bet the river.......in this example, by the turn and river we know so much more about his hand because of the bet on the flop and turn - both bets were called Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Re: Tourney Strat: 4th & 5th street betting you said you would check the flop' date=' and value bet the river.......in this example, by the turn and river we know so much more about his hand because of the bet on the flop and turn - both bets were called[/quote'] I take what you say but I think you have read my synopsis wrong ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 Re: Tourney Strat: 4th & 5th street betting Thanks for the input guys. This is the way the hand played out: I did just check behind. Not because I thought I was beat - I definitely didn't think he was on a flush draw so the river didn't bring any card I was worried about - but because I didn't see the value in betting as I didn't think any hand I was beating would call me. ** Dealing the river: 6d ovinho checked Toffee_Pete checked ovinho shows: :Ts:, :Td: Toffee_Pete shows: :Qh:, :Ac: Toffee_Pete wins 1875.00 from the main pot It was only after the showdown that I thought I should have bet the river (possibly because I already knew the result of the hand I realise) as I thought a better player would definitely have trusted his read of the hand - and I was sure on the turn I was ahead, and the river didn't change that, of his likely A8-AJ, 88-JJ - and sought that little extra value at the end. Whereas despite me having a solid reasoned opinion of Villain's likely holding, I took (what I considered in hindsight) the soft option of checking behind so I wouldn't lose any more chips if I was behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanfaz Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Re: Tourney Strat: 4th & 5th street betting Mate, i think this guy is just a fish, i never play against players who call decent bets on the flop and turn with two overcards which could easily have hit your hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.