Help with a hand

[Player004]

I'll put the whole hand in because I think I made the correct play (although I'm not sure about preflop). This is a situation where I have stacked off in the past and I think I am making progress but I was so tempted to call and regretted folding straight away. Seat 1: Button (€11.19) Seat 2: player04 (€22.26)

Seat 3: BB (€10.00) Seat 4: UTG (€6.02)

Seat 5: CO (€10.05)

player04 posts the small blind of €0.05

BB posts the big blind of €0.10

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to player04 [Td Ts]

UTG calls €0.10

CO folds

Button folds

player04 calls €0.10

BB checks

*** FLOP *** [8d 4c 7h] player04 bets €0.30

BB folds

UTG goes all-in with €5.92

player04 folds

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot €0.86 | Rake €0.04

Board: [8d 4c 7h]

Button won (€0.00), mucks

player04 won (€0.00), mucks

BB won (€0.00), mucks

UTG won (€0.86), mucks

CO won (€0.00), mucks The call UTG automatically made me think he had a decent hand (I know not automatic at this level but is always in the back of my mind). I don't think just calling preflop is a bad play but I'm happy to hear other opinions. I think the bet post flop is pretty standard, there is a straight draw out there so I was trying to charge the maximum for chasing. If he'd have just called I would have bet the pot again to a non dangerous card. I wasn't expecting the shove and I can only imagine he has a pocket pair or a set. If this is the case I'm really beating 99. I suppose at this level a hand like 87s or even 65s would be possible and hes just hit a strong flop. This was at a non turbo table and I used up all my alloted time before folding and I think my cursor went from fold to call a number of times. In summary I'm only beating 99 or A8 so this has to be a fold. Right?

[seanfaz]

Re: Help with a hand No i really think discussing this kind of scenario against such terrible players that just shove like that is pointless. His range is any 8, maybe any 7 and then all better hands such as two pair. I would have snap called with 10s there, because his range is so wide. Against a good player and a small raise i would be much more worried. I think preflop play was fine, but i would have check raised the flop (i hate to lead out like that). I would call the shove - this is a cash game and i think a call is definately +EV against his raise and i would definately have called.

[Nade]

Re: Help with a hand All your troubles are caused by not raising pre flop. I think it's imperative to squeeze limpers as they're usually fish so building bigger pots against fish is always profitable so i like to do it with suited connectors and so definitely pocket pairs. His range IMO is any pocket pair from 44 upwards, A8 and w/e. (sean he can't c/r he's in position.)( you've got to raise the flop, you don't get much from calling or checking except allowing your opponent to catch up for cheap. The way i look at these situations is - yes they limped and could possibly have a set, but likewise we limped so to them we could easily have a set also yet they over shove.

[happyhornet]

Re: Help with a hand Agree with Sean and Nade. I would have his range very wide indeed. If he had a set or the straight, surely the best policy would be to smooth call. I think he believes his hand to be vulnerable, and shoved. I think an eight is definitely in the range. I would have raised pre-flop aswell. You are inviting trouble. A high percentage of the time you get an overcard and you've just let Ace-rag or whatever go ahead of you. Even here. he could well have 56 or 34 for a draw, and you let him in cheap.

[Player004]

Re: Help with a hand I know the players down here are bad but they are also pretty transparent. I have never seen someone make this kind of move with middle pair and someone going all in for a €0.60 pot screams strength to me. Nade - I'm not sure but have you misread my position? I'm in the small blind and lead out of position post flop. If I was in position preflop there is no question I would have raised.

[Nade]

Re: Help with a hand oh right nevermind then. Still i'd raise pre flop and bet out the flop, vs a limper or two there's tonnes of value to be had betting out on those kinds of flops thye always have something in that range and will also often call 1 street with over cards. Still don';t know if i'd defintely fold or call so here's some pokerstove: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 47.102% 45.70% 01.40% 32576 998.00 { TdTs } Hand 1: 52.898% 51.50% 01.40% 36708 998.00 { 44+, A8s, T9s, A8o, T9o }

[Player07]

Re: Help with a hand I'd raise out of the blinds with 10,10 too. To be honest I would raise with 9,9 and 8,8 too, though I would see taking down the pot as a result. Any smaller pocket pair would depend on my image, but I'd mostly be limping. Having said that a pre-flop raise might not have shaken this guy off and you'd still be folding to the all-in.

[Player004]

Re: Help with a hand

I'd raise out of the blinds with 10,10 too. To be honest I would raise with 9,9 and 8,8 too, though I would see taking down the pot as a result. Any smaller pocket pair would depend on my image, but I'd mostly be limping. Having said that a pre-flop raise might not have shaken this guy off and you'd still be folding to the all-in.

I think the preflop action could be put down to personal preference. I still don't think I would raise here and then have to play the rest of the hand OOP. Now lets say I did raise. If I do raise from the SB it would be 4-5 BBs so say €0.50 and the villian calls and the action goes the same way (maybe not a pot sized bet this time) so I am still facing an all in. Is this all in stronger than the previous example?

[happyhornet]

Re: Help with a hand

I think the preflop action could be put down to personal preference. I still don't think I would raise here and then have to play the rest of the hand OOP. Now lets say I did raise. If I do raise from the SB it would be 4-5 BBs so say €0.50 and the villian calls and the action goes the same way (maybe not a pot sized bet this time) so I am still facing an all in. Is this all in stronger than the previous example?

I would say that if he calls a .50 raise, you lead out with a c-bet, and he goes all in, I think you can narrow his range to exclude a made straight or two pair. I still would call the all in here as a set is a possiblity as is an over pair but two Broadway cards with a backdoor flush draw or an Ace are also possibilities.

[seanfaz]

Re: Help with a hand

oh right nevermind then. Still i'd raise pre flop and bet out the flop, vs a limper or two there's tonnes of value to be had betting out on those kinds of flops thye always have something in that range and will also often call 1 street with over cards. Still don';t know if i'd defintely fold or call so here's some pokerstove: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 47.102% 45.70% 01.40% 32576 998.00 { TdTs } Hand 1: 52.898% 51.50% 01.40% 36708 998.00 { 44+, A8s, T9s, A8o, T9o }

I would say its more like...... 10s equity - 71.625% His range equity - 28.375% (88-66,44,A8s-A7s,A4s,K8s,Q8s,J8s,T8s,97s+,84s+,A8o-A7o,A4o,K8o,Q8o,J8o,T8o,98o) (from pokerstove) Maybe his range isn't quite that wide - i dont know i dont play these stakes?