Question ive always wondered

[Blair Boy]

Ive always wondered how Harry Findlay made and makes his money, I know from reading the papers his stakes started at a few large a time but that's all they seem to disclose that this is a man who bets etc at a time and yet Jp Mcmanus who bets in the same bracket maybe more does not get the seem to spring up as much.

[Tedthewolf]

Re: Question ive always wondered DECEMBER 06..... Harry's game is playing big on and off the track Harry Findlay at home The pro gambler speaks about his high-profile horses and making money on Betfair by Chris Cook Wednesday December 6, 2006 Harry Findlay, a flamboyant and highly successful gambler, gives the impression that he can hardly believe his luck in owning a horse as good as Denman, arguably the most exciting novice chaser around. "He's got that sort of thing about him, people either want to take him on or they like him, and that's the sort of person I am. There's no middle, grey area with Denman, there's no grey area with me. It's a horse that suits my type of character." The Paul Nicholls-trained six-year-old, unbeaten in three runs over fences, is a best-priced 4-1 favourite for the Royal & SunAlliance Chase next March and Findlay is in the happy position of having backed him at all rates down from 10-1. The last of the 5-1 disappeared a fortnight ago after a £50,000 cash bet was staked at a Ladbrokes shop in Doncaster. "I thought he was the wrong price at 5-1," says Findlay, adding that "a lot of the ones at the front of the market might not run." Denman goes to Cheltenham on Saturday for what is expected to be his last run for two months, before a final Festival prep at Newbury in February. His proud owner is in very upbeat mood. "Until he gets beat, he's a tank," he says. "I personally think that Paul Barber believes that he might have a horse he's always dreamt of." Barber, who is Nicholls' landlord and has the other half-share in Denman, seems an unlikely partner for Findlay. The Somerset dairy farmer is the older man by 20 years, generally wears a lot of green tweed at the races and is very reserved in his dealings with the media - in short, he is exactly the kind of old-school type that might be expected to bridle at the presence in his yard of a plain-speaking, high-rolling punter. "I can honestly say that but for a chance meeting through a mutual friend with Paul Barber at Doncaster Sales about five years ago, I doubt if I ever would have owned a horse," says Findlay. "We've since become good friends and his advice and knowledge have been great. "Some of the first horses I bought with Paul for a minimal outlay have turned out to be such good value. It was only after the success of those type of horses I decided to take a chance with Desert Quest." Even that £100,000 purchase now appears a bargain - Desert Quest has already won it back in prize money alone and there is little doubt that Findlay has made a substantial profit from his bets on the hurdler. Almost all of his gambling is done through the leading betting exchange Betfair, for whom Findlay has given plenty of plugs in a string of interviews over the years, whilst referring to traditional bookmakers as "vermin". "Most people believe I'm a walking advert for Betfair," says the 44-year-old and his expensive home near Bath would indeed seem to be evidence for the proposition that there is serious money to be made from his favourite website. But he is tired of all this unpaid PR work. In fact, he has a major reservation about the way the exchange works and now, for the first time, he is happy to say so in public. "I believe that Betfair have a moral obligation to get everyone down to 2% commission," he says, referring to the rake which the website takes from successful bets. As a valued customer responsible for a consistently high turnover, Findlay himself pays just 2%, but the vast majority of users pay more, with most paying the standard rate of 5%. Betfair's principal selling point is that they offer better odds than can be found with the High Street bookmakers, but Findlay feels strongly that this is undermined by the high rate of commission that they charge. "I talk about bookmakers not taking bets - well let me tell you now, on Betfair, no one can make a long-term profit paying 5% commission. I believe that it's nearly impossible to do it paying 4%. "One of the main reasons why I'm pro exchanges is because of the moral argument. You can check how much you're losing, it stops the lies, there's no credit. But Betfair lets itself down by charging people between 5% and 2%, depending on how much they bet - which encourages them to bet more than they otherwise would. "I have paid so far this year, to the start of this month, £714,000 commission, and I'm on 2%. I would rather pay 2.5% and have everyone pay 2.5% and give ordinary punters a chance. "Betfair's been stagnant for years and they've lost the heart of what they were trying to do. They are starting to lose liquidity in many markets and they need to increase the percentage of people who win on the exchange. "Bringing everyone down to 2% is the only option and eventually it will be to Betfair's financial advantage." Findlay's guide to winning and losing On gambling "If you look up gambling in the dictionary, it doesn't say 'this means a sure way to make a steady profit over a period of time', it says 'gambling: a form of interest that can either ruin you or make you a fortune', and that's the way it is." On backing odds-on "There's no difference between getting 1-2 about a 1-4 chance and getting 4-1 about a 2-1 chance. People who say 'I won't bet odds-on', they're just idiots. When you want to bet an odds-on shot, you can get on - when you want to bet a big-priced one, you can't." On why you shouldn't hedge "When you pick a 20-1 shot to win the Grand National, don't have £200 at 20's and then go and lay £600 at 5-2 and, when it wins, get £2,500. If you believe that 20-1 shot, have £200 at 20's and then go and have another £300 at 14's and then £400 at 10's and then, when it goes off 5-2 or 11-4, don't hedge if you still fancy it." .....MARCH 08 Greg Wood The Guardian, Saturday 8 March 2008 Article history Harry Findlay with the owner of Kauto Star, Clive Smith. Photograph: Julian Herbert/ Getty Images The first thing that Harry Findlay does is to introduce his dogs. There are two whippets, a greyhound and a terrier, and those are just the ones that happen to be around. Next, he announces that he is off for a steam. "Believe it or not," he says, "I'm allergic to dogs, so I need a steam every day. Ten minutes in the Turkish bath, and then into the plunge pool in the garden. It's the coldest in Britain. Two or three minutes in there really sorts you out. So you'll have to give me a quarter of an hour, unless you want to steam too." On balance, the view from the window seems a better option. Findlay's house sits on a hillside a few miles south-east of Bath, and looks out across the steep green slopes of a valley that the glaciers left behind. It takes a while to absorb the lush detail of the landscape, not to mention the thought that this is a view that Tiger Woods helped to buy. Several thousand footballers, rugby and tennis players and many generations of racehorses and greyhounds chipped in too. Findlay may not be the most successful professional gambler in Britain - he suspects that honour belongs to his long-time associate, Tony "The Lizard" Bloom - but he is certainly the most visible, and his profile will rise further still at Cheltenham next Friday, when his steeplechaser Denman takes on Kauto Star in the best Gold Cup for nearly half a century. Findlay is very visible indeed when he returns 15 minutes later, wearing only boxer shorts as he towels down his 17-stone frame. He puts on an old T-shirt, pats the greyhound sleeping in the corner of his office and sinks into a chair that faces five plasma screens mounted on the opposite wall. It is now that the Harry Findlay Experience really begins. A conversation with Findlay is a little like his plunge pool. At first, it is a shock to the system as he fires out so many thoughts and opinions, peppered with so much swearing, and in such rapid succession. Once you get used to it, though, it becomes quite invigorating. Here, after all, is a man who has been gambling all his adult life, and all around is the evidence that he is millions of pounds in front. The path that could take him to the summit of National Hunt racing began in High Wycombe, where Findlay's parents were nurses, and veered off towards gambling on an afternoon at Newbury racecourse 30 years ago, when he was 15. "As a kid, I was quite against racing," he says. "The football used to finish and the ITV Seven came on, and there was the old geezer with his hat, John Rickman. I used to put it on a par with the wrestling, couldn't understand why anyone would watch it when there was football on. Then a mate said, let's go to Newbury races. I had £2 on Approaching at even-money, light-blue colours with a chocolate-hooped cap, and it won by about 20 lengths. I drew £4, and I just thought it was incredible. "The whole day captivated me, blew my head off, and that same night I went to Slough dogs and that really finished me off. As I'm sitting here, my body can remember the excitement that I felt that night. I went to the dogs every night until I left school, and then worked in kennels. I was quite happy walking greyhounds all day. I still am now." Those are not his exact words, incidentally. Anyone who wants the full experience should insert a profanity every four or five words, unless you feel that Findlay is warming to his theme, in which case it is every two or three. It may not be big or clever, but it is certainly part of the fun. Once gambling had got hold of him, Findlay served his time learning its ways, and did so in more ways than one. "Everyone is vulnerable," he says, "and getting into the pitfalls of gambling is very easy. Without gambling, there's no way in a million years that I'd have seen the inside of the prison cell, but that's where I was at the age of 20, for credit card fraud. But 25 years later, I've won millions gambling but I've spent more than 90% of it and my horses are worth more than I am. "It's spent, so how are they ever going to get it back? I see life as a casino, in that I completely and utterly treat money as chips in a casino. Money is chips to play life with." Findlay's speciality is short-priced favourites, like Roger Federer at Wimbledon, Tiger Woods in the Masters, and the status quo in a football match with a couple of minutes to go. "To win, you have to have balls of steel, be very, very brave, and also be spontaneous," he says. "But I wouldn't expect to make more than six per cent [on total turnover], and it can be a very fine line. "I was badly wrong twice last year, on Barcelona to win the Spanish league and New Zealand in the rugby World Cup, and don't forget that Federer was 15-40 twice against Nadal in the final set at Wimbledon, and I had over £2m on Federer to win. During that fifth set I was nearly numb, it's the most nervous I've ever been. It would have made a massive difference to my life, and that was before New Zealand." The All Blacks' failure in the World Cup - Findlay saw it first-hand from a box at the Millennium Stadium - was the worst reverse of his betting career. "I had £2.6m on to win £1.6m," he says, "and I'd been using it like a bank for months, all paid on. I thought they were certainties, in fact I still think I should have had more on. That £4.2m would have come in like a big buffer, and if it had, I would have been able to slow down a bit." Harry Findlay and slowing down are difficult concepts to reconcile. This year, though, he will at least be able to watch Denman without thinking too much about his bets, unlike last year, when he cleared more than £1m on the horse's victory in the SunAlliance Chase. "As a gambler, I just love Denman," he says. "He's a crusher, only beaten once, but people keep standing for it. Look at his starting prices and it defies belief. But this year's not a financial pressure-cooker for me. I had a bit of 16-1 and 14-1 last year, and a bit more at 5-2 and 2-1, but it's not the end of the world. If Kauto Star wins and beats Denman and it's a proper race, it will still have been the greatest buzz to be involved. "Someone asked me the other day if I'm proud to own Denman, but it's not really pride, it's just luck at the end of the day. When I left school at 16, all my mates went to do jobs and I said, I wouldn't work for two grand a week at the jobs you lot are doing. Get up at seven, leave the kids, go to London, come back tired at eight, too knackered to enjoy the weekends with the kids, then do it again Monday to Friday. They said I was mad, but who's wrong?"