Tough Spot...or Not

[ELCAKER]

Sat down last week in a cash game in my local club. It doesn't get going very often these days so it was as much for old times sake. The blinds are 2-2 and it gets very very lively. Min sit down £50, max tends to be £200-250, but people are not afraid to get it in the middle. I tend to try and play tight,wait for my spots and then pray they hold up!! I sit down at a 6 handed table with £100 - which quickly goes with ak on a king high flop against a set of 3's. Being a pot limit game this is always a danger as you can't get rid of people holding small pairs pre flop! So I rebought in for £80, and quite quickly got upto £170 when I was dealt AA in the BB. As they say down the club,"MARVELLOUS!". Action goes. SEAT 1 (£250) - CALL SEAT 2 (200) - CALL SEAT 3 - FOLD SEAT 4 - (£300) RAISE - £15 SEAT 5- SB - FOLD SEAT 6 (me £180)) - POT - £45 SEAT 1 - CALL SEAT 2 - CALL SEAT 4 - CALL FLOP - (pot £160+) Q-4-J rainbow SEAT 1 - CHECK SEAT 2 - CHECK SEAT 4- CHECK SEAT 6 (me) - £50 SEAT 1 - CALL SEAT 2 - CALL SEAT 4 - FOLD TURN (pot-£300+) 4 SEAT 1 - £50 SEAT 2 - ALL IN - ME - left with around £70 ......... I folded as I knew I had to be beat, but a guy who I totally respect believed I should have called due to the pot odds. The pot was massive - well over £500. Seat 1 said he had A4 hearts (what he was calling for pre I dont know...but he eventually called, seat 2 then spun over Q4!!!) Who else folds here? Should the maths dictate my play here? I had outs to a higher house...

[Samba_SamPa]

Re: Tough Spot...or Not Even with the 8/1 on offer for putting your last £70 in, you've only realistically got the 2 x Aces (ignoring the fact one was gone) to make your higher FH from the 46 unknown cards, so you're NOT getting the odds to call in my opinion.

[SteveO]

Re: Tough Spot...or Not Surprised you didn't shove the flop with 160 in the pot and you had 125 left seems a no brainer to me. Why didn't you shove the flop? If they have 2 pair or trips so be it.

[ELCAKER]

Re: Tough Spot...or Not Greed mate - in hindsight it is exactly what I should have done but the pound signs where just too bright :-)

[billy the punter]

Re: Tough Spot...or Not Like I always say the result of this hand is secondary it what we all learn from these situations which is key (for next time). I'm definitely all-in on the flop and therefore not in this tricky situation on the turn. That said - you would've been called anyway on the flop by the two pair - but it still would've been correct play by you, and that is the most important thing. I don't think you have call. I think after you played it like you did you made the correct fold. You didn't have pot odds - you're drawing to two cards at best, likelyhood is one card at best (in a multi-way raised pot). People will say maths should dictate but I'm not always a believer in such things - how that is going slightly off the point as even though it was 70 into 500, you DIDN'T have the odds to call. Something I remember reading a long time ago stuck with me, £70 saved buys exactly the same amount of food as £70 won. Just sick though mate - some cash games have you pulling your hair out don't they? Please don't tell me the river was an ace. :\

[ELCAKER]

Re: Tough Spot...or Not No! That would have ended my poker playing career right there and then! Of course it wouldn't have :-) That should have happened when I flopped a Full Hse against a drunk maniac. I was holding JJ and the flop came J22. There'd already been 3 way action pre-flop. Post flop I led out for £50, he raised, other guy folded, I re-raised, villan went all in. I couldn't put him on 22 so I called. The pot was just under £800. He had q8. Yes that's right Q8. He chortled "fingers in the cookie jar", as I spun over the hse. I had spent most of it by the time the turn and river came 22. His q high took the loot. I cried.

[ELCAKER]

Re: Tough Spot...or Not No! That would have ended my poker playing career right there and then! Of course it wouldn't have :-) That should have happened when I flopped a Full Hse against a drunk maniac. I was holding JJ and the flop came J22. There'd already been 3 way action pre-flop. Post flop I led out for £50, he raised, other guy folded, I re-raised, villan went all in. I couldn't put him on 22 so I called. The pot was just under £800. He had q8. Yes that's right Q8. He chortled "fingers in the cookie jar", as I spun over the hse. I had spent most of it by the time the turn and river came 22. His q high took the loot.:spank I :cry

[pokerlife]

Re: Tough Spot...or Not gross... you probably have to call against most mediocre players... all they could realistically have that beat you would be quad fours jacks full or queens full. QJ (the most likely problem hand on the flop) has been counterfieghted. Its completely realistic that they could turn over a combination of KK QJ or KT. This coupled with the odds means i am likely to call.. but i concur with most in this thread in saying that i would not have had a decision to make because i would have jammed that flop 100% of the time in this situation against most opponents.

[ELCAKER]

Re: Tough Spot...or Not If you know someone is going to call your bet whatever, can you give any credence to slowplaying a big pair, with a view that it gives you the opportunity to get away from the hand on latter streets? I sometimes feel that if it is all going in anyway - how the hand unfolds is how the hand unfolds (does that make any sense?!!). Therefore if you are going to get outdrawn, well that's what the poker gods have decided...therefore if you slowplay you at least give yourself the opportunity to gain more information and can potentially get away from the hand as you know you are behind - I tend to only want to shove when a) I am drawing to the nuts b) When I think I can get it through c) When I think an oppo will call and he's behind, and I'm getting paid off the max Obviously the above hand is a bad example because my bet of £50 got called down twice, whereas an all-in would probably have narrowed the field, (the A4 wouldn't have hung around.) But with no flush draw out there i thought I would narrow it anyway. (In this spot, surely only called if beaten........)

[pokerlife]

Re: Tough Spot...or Not There's alot of players who would refuse to fold KQ or AQ to allin on that flop, KT(if it's there) also.KK will not fold to you. I've seen players make similar calls with hands as weak as 2nd pair top kicker. Even if they can see your cards and play perfectly you'd want to jam,the far most likely outcome is that you take it down, a great result!! Giving a card cheaply here can't really help you IMO because there's not much for someone to catch which will allow them to catchup enough to play whilst not improving thier hand to the winning hand.

[george2loose]

Re: Tough Spot...or Not This is the problem playing pot limit with complete fish- You have no way of protecting your hand unfortunately!

[Blatch]

Re: Tough Spot...or Not Im not a pot limit player but I agree with the above that u should be shoving the flop