PGremlin Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 20 players left from 287, and I am lowstack tonight. I want to maximize profit. Should you call or just keep it simple and reraise all-in? ** Hand # 2318003164 starting - 2008-12-17 00:16:59 ** FREEROLL GRAND PRIX[2368147]:Table 29 [Multi Table Hold 'em] (1200.00|2400.00 NL - MTT) Real Money shlomis sitting in seat 1 with 33300.00 cyro74 sitting in seat 2 with 6910.00 avinimni sitting in seat 3 with 7465.00[sitting out] slickmick177 sitting in seat 4 with 29322.50 matt1407 sitting in seat 5 with 18190.00 RiverChaser_ sitting in seat 6 with 9302.25 orenbensimon sitting in seat 7 with 14370.00 gimpboy sitting in seat 8 with 15066.00 beanolizzy sitting in seat 9 with 21818.75[Dealer] 173flashy371 sitting in seat 10 with 14550.00 173flashy371 posted the small blind - 600.00 shlomis posted the big blind - 1200.00 ** Dealing cards to RiverChaser_: Ah, Ac cyro74 folded avinimni folded slickmick177 folded matt1407 raised to 4800.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGremlin Posted December 16, 2008 Author Share Posted December 16, 2008 Re: Stan James $1500 freeroll tonight My thought was that the initial raiser was already pot committed, call or raise wouldn't matter much between us 2. I wanted someone behind us to reraise us or call us and then I would push all in post flop. Is this +EV? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Re: Stan James $1500 freeroll tonight If you shove he has to call anyway so I'd just get it in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Re: Stan James $1500 freeroll tonight With the chipstacks the only person to get involved would need a monster and it doesn't really matter if you call or shove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Re: Stan James $1500 freeroll tonight I think you have to shove them in here, pre-flop. There's already 6600 in the pot, I can't see Matt1407 folding to your shove, so he 'will' be putting another 4500 into the pot making it 11100, so you're getting the chance to add 120% to your stack, taking you up to over 20k in chips, about 17xBBs. The more people you get into the pot the less the chance of your Aces holding up. I would be happy in this situation to have just Matt1407 in the pot with me, getting 6/5 for my money with AA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Re: Stan James $1500 freeroll tonight His thinking is if he flats someone might come along. They need a very big hand to come along and so it wouldn't matter if he flats or shoves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGremlin Posted December 16, 2008 Author Share Posted December 16, 2008 Re: Stan James $1500 freeroll tonight I instinctively called instead of going all in, trying to lure another player in. I just wondered if It was +EV to hope someone has AK or a double and try make a 3way pot, so I could triple my stack instead of double so I could cruise to the final table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Re: Stan James $1500 freeroll tonight If the stacks were bigger Gremlin I wouid flat call to try and gain the maximum, but in this situation it's a no brainer I think. So in this situation you wouldn't entice another player by flatcalling and not shoving if that makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGremlin Posted December 16, 2008 Author Share Posted December 16, 2008 Re: Stan James $1500 freeroll tonight I thought it was a dubious decision from me to just call here when I thought about it in hindsight. I knew I would never lose the initial raiser. Guess the fold equity for the people behind me wouldn't change much if I call or go all in since my "all in" is just double the bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Re: Stan James $1500 freeroll tonight What happened with the rest of the hand? Did the villainn then lead out on the flop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Re: Stan James $1500 freeroll tonight His thinking is if he flats someone might come along. They need a very big hand to come along and so it wouldn't matter if he flats or shoves. Yeah, but I don't actually want anybody to come along and reduce my equity in the hand. I am happier taking odds of 6/5 with AA against one villain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGremlin Posted December 16, 2008 Author Share Posted December 16, 2008 Re: Stan James $1500 freeroll tonight ** Hand # 2318003164 starting - 2008-12-17 00:16:59 ** FREEROLL GRAND PRIX[2368147]:Table 29 [Multi Table Hold 'em] (1200.00|2400.00 NL - MTT) Real Money shlomis sitting in seat 1 with 33300.00 cyro74 sitting in seat 2 with 6910.00 avinimni sitting in seat 3 with 7465.00[sitting out] slickmick177 sitting in seat 4 with 29322.50 matt1407 sitting in seat 5 with 18190.00 RiverChaser_ sitting in seat 6 with 9302.25 orenbensimon sitting in seat 7 with 14370.00 gimpboy sitting in seat 8 with 15066.00 beanolizzy sitting in seat 9 with 21818.75[Dealer] 173flashy371 sitting in seat 10 with 14550.00 173flashy371 posted the small blind - 600.00 shlomis posted the big blind - 1200.00 ** Dealing cards to RiverChaser_: Ah, Ac cyro74 folded avinimni folded slickmick177 folded matt1407 raised to 4800.00 RiverChaser_ called - 4800.00 orenbensimon folded gimpboy folded beanolizzy folded 173flashy371 folded shlomis folded ** Dealing the flop: Jc, Qh, 9d matt1407 bet - 11400.00 RiverChaser_ went all-in - 4502.25 matt1407 shows: Ad, 10h ** Dealing the turn: 5c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGremlin Posted December 16, 2008 Author Share Posted December 16, 2008 Re: Stan James $1500 freeroll tonight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Re: Stan James $1500 freeroll tonight Whilst the strategy shouldn't be results orientated - it's about doing the smart thing long term, rather than the 'right' thing in the isolated hand - I think the way the hand played out gives credence to the shoving pre-flop argument. The more people you brought along, the more chance you had of hands hitting in that manner and cracking your Aces :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Intensity Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Re: Stan James $1500 freeroll tonight Yeah with the size of your stack I'd definately shove. He'll call with AT and probably quite a bit worse if everyone else folds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGremlin Posted December 16, 2008 Author Share Posted December 16, 2008 Re: Stan James $1500 freeroll tonight Aye, I agree with you guys that I should have just shoved all in in this situation. Keep it simple and not overthink it (be to greedy :lol) Would it have been a valid move to just call if I was bigstack with 5 times my stack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Re: Stan James $1500 freeroll tonight Would it have been a valid move to just call if I was bigstack with 5 times my stack? I would min-raise in this instance. Making it look like you're just bullying. If it folds back round to Matt1407, then has an all-in or fold decision to make - either way he's not getting rid of you and you're up against just one villain. A short stack is going to have a big hand to fancy his chances of entering the pot for his tourney life. A medium stack will have a similar all-in or fold decision as a call for nearly 10k wouldn't be an option. If a medium stack shoves for ~20k then I can see Matt1407 folding (as ATo isn't really a hand that looks good behind a re-raise and a re-re-raise, and he has over 10xBBs behind) and you will see the flop against just one villain the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Intensity Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Re: Stan James $1500 freeroll tonight Would it have been a valid move to just call if I was bigstack with 5 times my stack? I think so, it would certainly be more of a decision. If you shove as the big stack then matt for has some money in the pot and the big stacks in late position and the blinds can only call. Considering they have decent stacks then they'll need a very good hand to call and you're probably not going to get much action. matt is the only one who might call as he's already got quarter of his stack in the middle - and AT isn't awful against the 'big stack bully'. But if you call it gets more complicated. The big stack on the button, SB could call and it's tricky if you see a flop. What you want is one of them to make a reraise - have they been doing this so far at the table? In fact has there been much shoving at all or have you been seeing a few flops? It makes the hand much tougher to play if you call, but could be a good thing if the table dynamic is right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Intensity Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Re: Stan James $1500 freeroll tonight Oooh didn't think of min-raising. It's something I don't do very often:unsure:unsure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaMatrix Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Re: Stan James $1500 freeroll tonight beanolizzy pwning the final table.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGremlin Posted December 17, 2008 Author Share Posted December 17, 2008 Re: Stan James $1500 freeroll tonight Lots of stealing and shoving all-in. Seen very few flops. No real dominator yet at this moment on this table in the tournament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Intensity Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Re: Stan James $1500 freeroll tonight Then I might be more inclined to call (as a big stack) and see if someone goes for a steal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaMatrix Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Re: Stan James $1500 freeroll tonight I ran into QQ, 5th. gg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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