Identifying & Managing TILT!

[rippyuk]

I've had an an absolutely horrendous couple of hours, playing terribly & donking off chips. Don't know exactly what it is that set me off, but I've had to stop playing before I make serious dents in my 'roll. Just wondered how you guys identify when you're on tilt, and what you do to manage yourself when you are? Are you good at spotting early on that you're playing badly? Do you quit for the rest of the day? Take an hour off? As far as I'm concerned, tilting is any time when emotion overrides logic - but sometimes I don't know I'm doing it.

[whycantistayawayfromdogs]

Re: Identifying & Managing TILT! Seriously this is THE single biggest leak you can plug in poker, nothing will improve your winrate more than eradicating tilt. Having said that - I havnt managed it... Ive been running like complete dogshit - I think im now 20BI (at 25nl and 50nl) below expection over about a month at full tilt and betfair - and its really affected me. Before I could take a beat, laugh and know that I will get his money eventually, now it just makes me angry. Im terrible at spotting it until I review my session and think...'that was completely retarded'. I now play hour long sessions and take breaks etc..Any other ideas? I hope this thread gets the attention and replies that it deserves and that maybe we could all learn something from each other.

[aldric]

Re: Identifying & Managing TILT! I'm about to go on tilt big time...!! I have just lost with AA all in preflop 3 times in a row, what are the odds of that happening V 1 opponent on each occasion? Im finishing my last 2 games and will take some time off. This was the latest and when I saw the flop I knew I was going to get beaten: ***** Hand 1305648721 ***** 100.00/200.00 Texas Hold'em (No Limit ) - 04 November 2008 14:25:50 Cooler (Real /Tournament ) Seat 1: ciccio1155 (3220.00) Seat 2: VEKI1121 (1700.00) Seat 3: PL-Aldric (980.00) Seat 4: Unknown (0.00) Seat 5: pirla74 (1390.00) Seat 6: katony76 (1420.00) Seat 7: Marusan (2480.00) Seat 8: Silas10 (3810.00) Seat 9: Unknown (0.00) Seat 10: Unknown (0.00) PL-Aldric post SB 100.00 pirla74 post BB 200.00 ** Deal ** ciccio1155 [N/A, N/A] VEKI1121 [N/A, N/A] PL-Aldric [Ac, As] pirla74 [N/A, N/A] katony76 [N/A, N/A] Marusan [N/A, N/A] Silas10 [N/A, N/A] *** Bet Round 1 *** katony76 Fold Marusan Fold Silas10 Fold ciccio1155 All-in 3220.00 VEKI1121 Fold PL-Aldric All-in 980.00 pirla74 Fold *** Flop(Board): *** : [7s, 9h, Jd] *** Turn(Board): *** : [7s, 9h, Jd, Qh] *** River(Board): *** : [7s, 9h, Jd, Qh, 8c] *** Showdown *** : Rake: 0.00 Total Pot: 2160.00 ciccio1155 [10c, Ah] Straight to the queen Win: 2160.00 VEKI1121 Fold Win: 0.00 PL-Aldric [Ac, As] Pair of aces Win: 0.00 pirla74 Fold Win: 0.00 katony76 Fold Win: 0.00 Marusan Fold Win: 0.00 Silas10 Fold Win: 0.00

[PGremlin]

Re: Identifying & Managing TILT! I spot it early when I know that the right decision is to fold, but instead I try to chase (call) or bluff (raise) against my own logic that tells me to just fold it. Going on tilt when in a tournament is something that happens too. I take a few secs compose myself and try to suck it up and play my normal game. I guess it's about being about to control your emotions when you've just lost a lot after making a correct play, or after someone is bullying you by reraising your every call/raise. It's not a specific poker skill, it's more a general mental skill to keep your focus on what you need to do without being clouded by your emotions. First step is identifying when it happens, and often you can control it when you realize that you are on tilt. Normally that's enough for me. Never had a rage/panic attack like Phil Hellmuth :tongue2

[rippyuk]

Re: Identifying & Managing TILT!

Im terrible at spotting it until I review my session and think...'that was completely retarded'.

Exactly, either that, or I finally play enough hands badly for something in my brain to click and realise what a muppet I'm being. I'd love this mechanism to kick in straight away, rather than far too late in many cases. Something else I've noticed is I tilt far less in tournaments, perhaps because each decision is made in isolation - and if I DO play a hand like a complete moron, I'm out of the tourney so don't get the chance to perpetuate the bad play. On a cash table it's so easy to reload & continue tilting.

[SteveO]

Re: Identifying & Managing TILT! I've started only playing hour sessions in cash and this definitely controls tilt. You take a break after each hour and so you start the next session with a clean sheet and forget about your losses etc. It's extremely difficult to tilt in hourly sessions I think and if you do then you must have some mental issues going on which are clearly distracting you.

[Blatch]

Re: Identifying & Managing TILT! I very rarely tilt but when I do its normally in live cash games. Try to walk off and come back but alot harder. Identifying it isnt a problem its the getting up bit that is.

[glceud]

Re: Identifying & Managing TILT!

Im terrible at spotting it until I review my session and think...'that was completely retarded'.

Thats just playing poorly, tilting is different as your playing badly in an attempt to buy your way out of trouble and relying on luck rather than your usual game to recover losses. It is very obvious when your tilting. Personaly at the first sign I get out and if I need to be playing for the money aspect I move sites. I tend to respect my bankrolls differently at different sites.

[rippyuk]

Re: Identifying & Managing TILT!

It's extremely difficult to tilt in hourly sessions I think and if you do then you must have some mental issues going on which are clearly distracting you.

True, I've never really tried to limit my sessions in time like that, but you're right - it's gotta be very rare that I blow off a couple of buyins within the first hour of play in any given session. Will definately give hourly sessions a try.

Identifying it isnt a problem its the getting up bit that is.

I guess that's true for me too.. There is definately a time delay between realising what I'm doing, and standing up from the table. Even when I realise I'm on tilt, I will continue to play, trying to make up for my lameness - usually resulting in more tilt & more chip loss.

[SteveO]

Re: Identifying & Managing TILT!

I very rarely tilt but when I do its normally in live cash games. Try to walk off and come back but alot harder. Identifying it isnt a problem its the getting up bit that is.

Yeah I agree, I thinks it easier to tilt in cash or tournaments live. If there's a player whis is pissing you off it's so to easy to get overly involved with him to try and take him out. There's a guy who plays in Cardiff he basically plays any 2 cards and raises every hand. Usually I just wait patiently for hands but sometimes if he's running over the table I'll play more hands just to try and bust him and usually end up:@.

[whycantistayawayfromdogs]

Re: Identifying & Managing TILT!

Thats just playing poorly, tilting is different as your playing badly in an attempt to buy your way out of trouble and relying on luck rather than your usual game to recover losses. It is very obvious when your tilting. Personaly at the first sign I get out and if I need to be playing for the money aspect I move sites. I tend to respect my bankrolls differently at different sites.

Well i agree with one thing, tilt involves making a poor change to your approach to the game - but this doesnt mean 'relying on luck' AT ALL. Some people Nit up when they are tilting whilst others loosen up - some people think everyone is out to get them and some people open fold top pair becasue they KNOW they will lose. :lol @ 'thats just playing poorly' - exactly my point, I play poorly when my mind is cluttered (tilt) or tired and I cant see the situation for what it is (i.e. a passive fish raises the turn after c/c the flop, TPTK might not be good this time/I have AK, Arrr in arrrr in). Whereas in my review im free to concentrate on the situation without random shit clogging my thought processes up. Yeah its easy to spot when you are playing like a complete spastic but tilting doesnt have to be so obvious. But I agree possibly the hardest part is taking a break when you should. Tommy Angelo mentions a guy who used to tilt like crazy in his book, and one of his friends said of him, 'He eats like a bird and shits like an elephant' - So basically I guess the key is to make you winning sessions large and your losing sessions neglegable

[glceud]

Re: Identifying & Managing TILT! Think we need a definition of tilt before we address the problem.

[whycantistayawayfromdogs]

Re: Identifying & Managing TILT! See thats the problem, it is so huge its not easy to define. From Tommy Angelo's book - 'I was a great tilter, i knew all the different kinds. I could do steaming tilt, simmering tilt, too loose tilt, too tight tilt, too aggressive tilt, too passive tilt, playing to high tilt, playing to long tilt, playing to tired tilt, entitlement tilt, annoyed tilt, injustice tilt, frustration tilt, sloppy tilt, revenge tilt, underfunded tilt, overfunded tilt, shame tilt, distracted tilt' etc etc 'I figured if I ever went broke at poker it wouldn't be because my best wasnt good enough to keep me afloat. It'd be because my worst was bad enough to sink me'. So that is tilt, anything that leads you not to play your A-game.

[rippyuk]

Re: Identifying & Managing TILT! I guess I see what wcisafd is saying - for capable players who know how to play optimally, any deviation from optimal play for whatever reason could be considered tilt. If you literally don't know any better, that's just poor play. If you ordinarily DO know better, is that defined as tilt?

[Dodger]

Re: Identifying & Managing TILT! Wiki:

Tilt is a poker term for a state of mental confusion or frustration in which a player adopts a less than optimal strategy, usually resulting in the player becoming over-aggressive. This term is closely associated with steam and some consider the terms equivalent, but 'steam' typically carries more anger and intensity.[1] Placing an opponent on tilt or dealing with being on tilt oneself is an important aspects of poker. It is a relatively frequent occurrence due to frustration, animosity against other players, or simple bad luck. Experienced players recommend learning to recognize that one is experiencing tilt and avoid allowing it to influence one’s play. The most likely origin of the word "tilt" is as a reference to tilting a pinball machine. The frustration from seeing the ball follow a path towards the gap between the flippers can lead to the player physically tilting the machine (in an attempt to guide the ball towards the flippers). However, in doing so, some games will flash the word "TILT" and freeze the flippers, causing the ball to be lost for certain. The metaphor here being over-aggression due to frustration leads to severely detrimental gameplay.

[Dodger]

Re: Identifying & Managing TILT! And in the same article...how to handle it:

Advice when tilted

For the beginning player, the elimination or minimization of tilt is considered an essential improvement that can be made in play (for instance in the strategic advice of Mike Caro and especially, Lou Krieger). Many advanced players (after logging thousands of table-hours) claim to have outgrown “tilt†and frustration, although other poker professionals admit it is still a “leak†in their game. One commonly suggested way to fight tilt is to disregard the outcomes of pots, particularly those that are statistically uncommon. So-called “bad beats,†when one puts a lot of chips in the pot with the best hand and still loses, deserve little thought; they are the product of variance, not bad strategy. This mindset calls for the player to understand poker is a game of decisions and correct play in making the right bets over a long period of time. Another method for avoiding tilt is to try lowering one’s variance, even if that means winning fewer chips overall. Therefore, one may play passively and fold marginal hands, even though that may mean folding the winning hand. This may also imply that one plays tightly— and looks for advantageous situations. Once tilt begins, players are well-advised to leave the table and return when emotions have subsided. When away from the table, players are advised to take time to refresh themselves, eat and drink (non-alcoholic) if necessary, and take a break outside in the fresh air. If none of these work in lessening tilt, players are advised to leave the game and not return to playing until they have shaken off the results that led to the tilt. The intent of the advice is to prevent the upset person from letting negative emotions lead to bigger losses that can seriously hurt one’s bankroll.

[rippyuk]

Re: Identifying & Managing TILT!

Another method for avoiding tilt is to try lowering one’s variance, even if that means winning fewer chips overall. Therefore, one may play passively and fold marginal hands, even though that may mean folding the winning hand.

Surely by adjusting your standard play, you've let tilt win? I've been reading a few article myself too. There is a reasonable one from an old issue of Inside Edge, discussing in more detail some of the things talked about in this thread - http://www.inside-edge-mag.co.uk/advancedplay/holdem/390/insideedge_advanced_play.html An interesting article from Pocket Fives takes things to a psychological level, discussing how to eliminate tilt from not just your game, but your entire personality! http://www.pocketfives.com/poker-articles/managing-tilt

[rippyuk]

Re: Identifying & Managing TILT! Found this in another thread elsewhere discussing tilt. It's from a web radio show called Cash Plays, and features an interview with a Poker pro who used to be a Hypnotherapist. He discusses what he calls Emotional Management, and the difference between 'steaming' and 'tilt'. The whole show is pretty good, but skip to 42 minutes if you want to hear the tilt specific part. http://www.pokerroad.com/cash_plays/4-15-08/

[whycantistayawayfromdogs]

Re: Identifying & Managing TILT!

Found this in another thread elsewhere discussing tilt. It's from a web radio show called Cash Plays, and features an interview with a Poker pro who used to be a Hypnotherapist. He discusses what he calls Emotional Management, and the difference between 'steaming' and 'tilt'. The whole show is pretty good, but skip to 42 minutes if you want to hear the tilt specific part. http://www.pokerroad.com/cash_plays/4-15-08/

Good show but..

[whycantistayawayfromdogs]

Re: Identifying & Managing TILT! that show is really worth listening to. I never actually thought of the ability to get up from the table as an extra 'edge' before. Basically says, if ur always > 90% sharp when you are playing and your opponents are 30%-100% sharp then thats a further edge you have over them.