teaulc Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 pick the bones from this one, GAME #1202935152: Texas Hold'em NL $0.10/$0.20 2008-10-07 12:43:49 Table Bristol Seat 1: Mishgan2001 ($28.99 in chips) Seat 3: doNkvoNkloNk ($19.70 in chips) Seat 5: cven02 ($20.27 in chips) Seat 6: MrsKitano ($27.67 in chips) Seat 8: TaxAvoider ($23.34 in chips) DEALER Seat 10: teaulcsg ($20.14 in chips) teaulcsg: Post SB $0.10 Mishgan2001: Post BB $0.20 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to teaulcsg [sK DQ] doNkvoNkloNk: Fold cven02: Call $0.20 MrsKitano: Fold TaxAvoider: Raise (NF) $0.60 teaulcsg: Call $0.50 Mishgan2001: Call $0.40 cven02: Call $0.40 *** FLOP *** [HQ S8 HJ] teaulcsg: Bet $1.00 Mishgan2001: Fold cven02: Call $1.00 TaxAvoider: Raise (NF) $4.20 teaulcsg: Raise (NF) $19.54 cven02: Fold TaxAvoider: Call $15.34 *** TURN *** [CQ] *** RIVER *** [C9] *** SUMMARY *** Total pot $41.48 Rake $1.00 TaxAvoider: Shows [HK CK] teaulcsg: wins $41.48 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Re: another cash hand from last night How many bad beat threads are you planning on starting today Al ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatch Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Re: another cash hand from last night This one you could have played better :) Nothing wrong with pre flop, however depends on player notes, I will normally check to any pre flop raiser on a board like that. The flop is not a great one for you despite it looking good with top pair and over kicker. Other players in the pot that are likely to have any of the following hands, 9 10, QJ, 88 etc. Your probably not beating a lot here however you cant simply fold every time becuase of the popularity of the continuation bet nowadays. I would check call the flop. The loveley lady pops up on the turn and you now have to be pretty certain your winning as only the pre flop raiser and you are left. The check raise gives away your hand too much, so I would either lead into him hoping he raises, or again check call and fire on the river. You may not get your oppo all in playing it in a better way but you wont go broke as often as you should do here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Re: another cash hand from last night scrap that read the hand wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teaulc Posted October 8, 2008 Author Share Posted October 8, 2008 Re: another cash hand from last night How many bad beat threads are you planning on starting today Al ;) got you to post in strategy again though :tongue2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatch Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Re: another cash hand from last night Sorry should have added, your re raise all in is probably only getting called if your losing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Re: another cash hand from last night How many bad beat threads are you planning on starting today Al ;) I think you've misread the hand - is not a bad beat :tongue2 - Al was miles and miles and miles behind when the money went in - he had 10% equity and his opponent was 90% to win - the right hand held up :ok Following on from the way I expressed it in the other thread - you made a loss on this hand - your equity was 10% of $41.48 = $4.15 but you paid $20.14 for it - you made a loss on the hand of $15.99 (Don't be fooled by the cash flow - profit and loss is what is important - assuming you have sufficient liquidity/bankroll). The difference between the tourneys (that you are used to) and cash games is that you are a lot deeper - you have 100xBB in your stack - it takes a far stronger hand to risk 100xBB than it should to risk 10xBB - you've risked too much money with too weak a hand (You only had top pair, 2nd kicker) - at some point you needed to take the decision to slow down and control the size of the pot (without very specific reads on the Villain) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Re: another cash hand from last night Aside from the equity argument GaF? which is flawless ;) , the "right hand" didn't hold up, in so much as the Pocket KK lost the pot to Al's trip QQQ You could call this, as far as Al was concerned, a GOOD beat thread :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Re: another cash hand from last night the "right hand" didn't hold up' date=' in so much as the Pocket KK lost the pot to Al's trip QQQ[/quote'] But Al only had a pair of Queens when the money went in ........ He had nothing left to bet after he hit trips...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Re: another cash hand from last night I know. I'm confused :unsure lol You said "the right hand held up"? I thought you meant the right hand as in the hand that was ahead when the money went in. Anyhoo... :lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Re: another cash hand from last night lol - I did!! When the money went in - Villain had KK and Al had QQ .... the KK went on to win, so the right hand held up ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Re: another cash hand from last night lol - I did!! When the money went in - Villain had KK and Al had QQ .... the KK went on to win, so the right hand held up ;) It didn't "teaulcsg: wins $41.48" Glad it was you and not me :dude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Re: another cash hand from last night rofl :$ I've never known Al to post a winning hand before - I just assumed :tongue2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Re: another cash hand from last night scrap that read the hand wrong You eejit :tongue2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Re: another cash hand from last night Ok - now I know what really happened :tongue2 The principal of what I was trying to say holds up ;) Al - don't feel good about this hand, and bad about the other one - forget the "cash flow" - forget the results - you made a loss here, you "got it wrong". On the other hand, you made a profit, you got it right :ok Be happy about the other hand (and forget it) - try and work out what you could do better with this hand. :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teaulc Posted October 8, 2008 Author Share Posted October 8, 2008 Re: another cash hand from last night rofl :$ I've never known Al to post a winning hand before - I just assumed :tongue2 :lol:lol:lol i do win sometimes :loon cheers for info Trev and all,as i said earlier i am just treading into the mirky waters of cash play seriously so expect a few more hands posted up, i can handle the critiscm but so much nicer to get a well done Al sometimes:ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whycantistayawayfromdogs Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Re: another cash hand from last night I am going to start doing my strategy posts in bullet form because otherwise I just waffle. - This is pretty hideous tbh - What was your thinking behind the tiny donkbet on the flop? i.e. what were you hoping for it to acheive.. - I dont like a check/call because its multiway and the PFR is pretty likely to check behind if hes missed or caught a small piece, then were are giving a free card 4-way on a very very drawy board - Im not excited about playing this hand once the flop comes down like that. - Why did you shove over the top on the flop, are any better hands going to fold [obv not] but more importantly are any worse hands going to call [pretty unlikely] - I really cant find a line that I like here other than fold/3bet preflop, Im suspicious of his tiny raise preflop. The advantage of a 3bet preflop is that you are probably forcing him to define his hand early in the action, if he 4bets you can fold without a worry and if he flats you have decent equity and a good chance of making some money against JJ/TT and the likes on a Q or K high flop (note that I probably check/fold or bethalfpot/fold a lot of flops. Ramble Ramble Ramble So in summary: - you played the hand pretty bad but it definately isnt an easy spot. - i like a 3bet or fold preflop [note you are ahead of the limpers ranges that you are giving huge odds to call the raise by flatting pf] - as played i like a check/call if this guy will cbet in multiway pots without 'it', otherwise you are just posting money down a drain. In most circumstances a lead is probly best on the flop but never that small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whycantistayawayfromdogs Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Re: another cash hand from last night Im so terrible at writing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Re: another cash hand from last night Im so terrible at writing I think you've made the points very well :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teaulc Posted October 8, 2008 Author Share Posted October 8, 2008 Re: another cash hand from last night thanks whycant, my thinking :loon:loon hmmm last night was one of those nights when i couldnt do much wrong,everything mostly went my way even cashing in the 2 tourneys i was playing at the same time, taxavoider was putting it on going by what he had played previously,with top pair on the flop,i wanted to end the hand there thinking he had mid pair or A/K,a bad read by me as it turned out but a lot of luck on the turn made it a profitable bad play. as most of you know i aint a by the numbers player,i go by gut feeling and it works reasonably well for me.but i am willing to learn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whycantistayawayfromdogs Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Re: another cash hand from last night with top pair on the flop,i wanted to end the hand there See this is upsidedown logic, I cant stress the value of a membership at DeucesCracked or at least having a chat with a cash game pro who can really get their point across (i.e. someone who can justify their actions with solid theory, something i aspire to be able to do one day lol). I think almost none of his range is a bluff but all you are doing by shoving is getting hands you beat (bluffs and wierd bets when hes caught a piece) to fold and hands that beat you to call. In cash games we are trying to maximise our EV on one particular hand, where as in tournys you might have to make decisions based on the stack-pot ratios and stuff like that. thinking he had mid pair or A/K,a bad read by me as it turned out Whilst you are playing you should be asking yourself a lot of questions about what you want to happen and therefore why you should take a certain action [and also what you will do in the rest of the hand], so i will start with one here. 'Why am I trying to make him fold these hands?' Giving him the oppotunity to fold these hands is pretty much allowing him to play them perfectly, he took a stab at the pot, u shoved, he KNOWS hes losing now and can fold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nade Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Re: another cash hand from last night Sorry should have added' date=' your re raise all in is probably only getting called if your losing.[/quote'] I think this is a good point to think about in all situations and sums this one up well. Without more info about your opponents i think calling the raise pre flop in the SB is a good pot controlling measure. I don't mind the bet out on the flop as an 'information' bet, though when you bet 6handed it should really be for value and not information but in this situation you get good information as the guy on the button reraises your bet with a player left to act who's already called your bet so is obviously interested in the hand as well as yourself. Alarm bells should be ringing. I like calling the buttons raise usually because i don't like folding top pair big kicker vs a button raise on the flop but that's mostly situation/ player dependant. This is a general point but it's also good to be aware of why the guy in seat5 has called your bet, it could be because the guy on the button is one of these button maniacs who likes to squeeze post and pre flop from that position. So the guy in seat 5 is inducing a squeeze from the button, it's rare but possible and just something to consider. But back to the point if you call pre flop it should be for pot control as you're OOP, so to follow this on c/c on all streets can be normal, but again that depends on boards/ players etc. If you c/c the flop, the turn comes a 3s for example what happens when your opponent pushes? either a crying call or fold. By betting out at the flop you get the information from your opponent that they like their hand a lot as they reraise. If you then call their bet, check the turn, it comes a blank and they shove it's a standard fold. So maybe betting out here isn't so bad as long as you have a plan for later streets. For example if you call their raise to $4 the turn comes a brick, you check, they check behind, you can then very often get a good value bet paid off by worse hands on the river. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nade Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Re: another cash hand from last night - i like a 3bet or fold preflop [note you are ahead of the limpers ranges that you are giving huge odds to call the raise by flatting pf] I'd be 3betting there with KQ mostly as a semi-bluff hoping to take the pot down pre flop. We've no info on the button raiser but if he's a tight player then 3betting with KQ is very marginal as you can''t call a 4bet/shove with it and post flop it doesn't play very well vs a tight player because if the flop comes K/Q high and your tight opponent is still going strong with it you're always toast. If button is a maniac i think a 3bet would be good as you're ahead of their range and you can get good value from them post flop if they call and you hit. IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.