Samba_SamPa Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 Re: Suggestions You'll be interested to know my real name is Pete Kerching ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlin Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Re: Suggestions Samba, that is small beer, you need to think much bigger. Think global. Pete Kerching, Kerching, Kerching, Kerching, sounds somehow much more attracive to some people. There is a potential downside of course, if you decide to go down that route. Isn't there always? At the vey least, your credit card comapny may not be able to provide you with a card long enough to fit your name on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonzie14 Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Re: Suggestions Just a small point. I've noticed a couple of posts regarding exchange rates when carrying out transfers to/from stakers. Would it not be a good idea to use one particular exchange rate site for all transactions, to avoid any confusion/possible disputes. I appreciate that we are only talking pennies/cents at the moment, but if this forum realy gets going, I think this could potentially be a source of problems, so best to sort it out now. I use http://www.xe.com/ but any site would do, as long as we all agree. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnley Joe Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Re: Suggestions As you say mate, as we are only just beginning its not an issue but could become one. I think most people, and i definatly have is just double the £ stake in to dollars, so if X asks for £5.50 then i ship $11 dollars. I do this because if he wins, say £50, he will ship $100 back. Hope that makes sense? I think the prob is when people start requesting Euros, then i agree that we use an exchange rate. open to any thoughts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morlspin Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Re: Suggestions Just a small point. I've noticed a couple of posts regarding exchange rates when carrying out transfers to/from stakers. Would it not be a good idea to use one particular exchange rate site for all transactions, to avoid any confusion/possible disputes. I appreciate that we are only talking pennies/cents at the moment, but if this forum realy gets going, I think this could potentially be a source of problems, so best to sort it out now. I use http://www.xe.com/ but any site would do, as long as we all agree. Any thoughts? Good idea Fonzie! www.xe.com it is then for the exchange rates:ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnley Joe Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Re: Suggestions Morls, i seen that somebody asked if we could have something for the stakees. I dont know something similar to the poker challenge forum? So as a stakee, you could keep a track of investments and loses/ Wins Every Stakee has their own thread and updates it with the details of stakes and could do a little write up about each stake? Why they staked and what the outcome was etc, i think this might also help people stake others if they can see somebody elses reasoning For eg I staked X in the Sunday 200K cos i knew that they are good enough to last 2 hours in a torney which almost certainly puts them in the money in this crapshot! Leave that with you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morlspin Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Re: Suggestions Yeah DIK9 mentioned that in the other thread, im a little unsure of how we work it, so lemme get my head round it and ill try sort it out mate Morls, i seen that somebody asked if we could have something for the stakees. I dont know something similar to the poker challenge forum? So as a stakee, you could keep a track of investments and loses/ Wins Every Stakee has their own thread and updates it with the details of stakes and could do a little write up about each stake? Why they staked and what the outcome was etc, i think this might also help people stake others if they can see somebody elses reasoning For eg I staked X in the Sunday 200K cos i knew that they are good enough to last 2 hours in a torney which almost certainly puts them in the money in this crapshot! Leave that with you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 6, 2008 Share Posted September 6, 2008 Re: Suggestions Am putting a spreadsheet together for a basic league table for morl (haven't spoken to him yet, so he may want to use it, he may not) so just looking at some of the potential "issues" ..... for the exchange rates - obviously on the site specified, the exchange rate varies daily - as BJ says - the exchange rate doesn't really matter, so long as it's consistent from the buy in to the payout (players should be aware that there is the potential for exchange rates to move, so it is possible they could have to pay out slightly more than thay receive in prize money (or less) ) - I think the xe.com exchange rate should be quoted with the proposal in the first thread of a stake proposal and that should apply to the investment and the payout.... the key is that it should be the same for investments and payouts...... Obviously a single currency is needed for the league table as well - I would suggest US Dollars, which is the most common currency..... By the way BJ, USD v GBP exchange rate has moved a lot in recent days - it's quite a way from 2:1 now - latest is $1.76 = £1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 6, 2008 Share Posted September 6, 2008 Re: Suggestions Obviously a single currency is needed for the league table as well - I would suggest US Dollars, which is the most common currency..... Just realised that morl is putting his table in GBP - so I'll do the same :ok Probably makes more sense with the live games :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatch Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Re: Suggestions Why does someone have to have 500 posts to be able to request a stake? I understand the fact about people abusng the system but surely you want this idea to grow and be popular and it will certainly attract new people to the site. However, when they see 500 posts requred they simply wont bother and will go elsewhere. You have some very good players out there that are after staking but wont sign up because of this rule - therefore you are detracting the qualiy for the stakees too. Surely people can make up their own minds who to stake and who not to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morlspin Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Re: Suggestions Why does someone have to have 500 posts to be able to request a stake? I understand the fact about people abusng the system but surely you want this idea to grow and be popular and it will certainly attract new people to the site. However, when they see 500 posts requred they simply wont bother and will go elsewhere. You have some very good players out there that are after staking but wont sign up because of this rule - therefore you are detracting the qualiy for the stakees too. Surely people can make up their own minds who to stake and who not to? I dont understand what is so confusing about the rules and about the email I sent you. We have the rules in place in order to help protect our members from scammers, theives and people who just shouldnt be staked. Although PuntersLounge has no liability with regards to anyone being scammed via a stake deal, we still want to protect our members as much as possible and simple rules like being a known member or having posted a bit on here 1st can only help protect our members, which in turn will help the forum grow and attract new members who are not fearfull of being ripped off. There are plenty of other stakings forums to try your luck on if your not happy here, however if you do decide to stay, im sure you'll be very welcome by all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatch Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Re: Suggestions Hi Morlspin, I never received an email from you, and if I had I wouldnt have posted what I have above. Im not here to cause any trouble just think 500 posts is a very high figure to be allowed to ask for backing. I think if you lowered it to say 100 then you helping to protect your forum members as well attracting many more people to your site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morlspin Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Re: Suggestions Hi Morlspin, I never received an email from you, and if I had I wouldnt have posted what I have above. Im not here to cause any trouble just think 500 posts is a very high figure to be allowed to ask for backing. I think if you lowered it to say 100 then you helping to protect your forum members as well attracting many more people to your site. Hi Neil I sent the email to the email address you used to sign up with on 5th September from the PLPoker email account. I can send it again if you wish or ill post it up here if thats easier for you. Graeme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatch Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Re: Suggestions Whatever is easiest for you, I dont mind if you want to keep it private, be nice to have a read of what you said. Just checked account and its not there ... [email protected]?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatch Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Re: Suggestions Infact keep it on here, i can then reply and get closer to my 500 ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morlspin Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Re: Suggestions Whatever is easiest for you, I dont mind if you want to keep it private, be nice to have a read of what you said. Just checked account and its not there ... [email protected]?? Yeah thats the account i sent it too......ok here it is below, Cheers Hi Neil My name is Graeme Morl and im a moderator on Punterslounge.com where you have recently asked for a share deal. Im emailing you to explain our reasons why the share deal was removed. Basically myself and the other moderators had a lot of thinking to do before we set up the staking forum and we decided that in order to keep the forum safe for our users, we would introduce restrictions on stake requests......500 posts or 6 months active membership. People have been scammed before, lost money and felt uneasy about things like this in the past, and we took that into consideration before setting the forum up. Whilst im not saying that you would ever do that, its just a precaution we are taking to protect the thousands of genuine members we have. I hope you can understand our decision and whilst its not what you wanted to hear, I hope you stick around and enjoy the many other benefits the forums have to offer. Thanks for your time and hopefully your understanding! morlspin punterslounge.com moderator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatch Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Re: Suggestions Thanks for that. I do fully understand your point of view ... I just feel 500 is a bit ecessive. Well i better be off and do some work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Fear Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Re: Suggestions How about setting a minimum buyin on "Staking Offers"? :unsure Getting someone to play a tourney for you with a buyin below say $20 seems like exploitation or slave labour to me. :tongue2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morlspin Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Re: Suggestions How about setting a minimum buyin on "Staking Offers"? :unsure Getting someone to play a tourney for you with a buyin below say $20 seems like exploitation or slave labour to me. :tongue2 Thats the beauty mate, they dont have to accept any offer so does it really make a difference? If somone wants to start off playing a $5 mtt to prove their worth, then im all for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Re: Suggestions seems like exploitation or slave labour to me. :tongue2 Slave labour, or money for nothing? People get a lot more excited about far lower value freerolls - with low stake events, is it not just turning buy in events into freerolls for players? Its giving people the opportunity to play games they may otherwise choose not to play, to play poker of a higher standard than they otherwise might - surely that's exactly what staking is all about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Fear Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Re: Suggestions Thats the beauty mate, they dont have to accept any offer so does it really make a difference? If somone wants to start off playing a $5 mtt to prove their worth, then im all for it Fair point morls, it just seems like the first people to take up these offers are players that could quite easily fund themselves and have already proved their worth in PL tourneys in the past. But if these people want to earn money for others then fair play to them. :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morlspin Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Re: Suggestions Fair point morls, it just seems like the first people to take up these offers are players that could quite easily fund themselves and have already proved their worth in PL tourneys in the past. But if these people want to earn money for others then fair play to them. :ok Ill give you a good example Red, Im going to be away for the next 3 weekends, 2 PL meets and a wedding and need a fair bit of cash to see me through these days away, so if i can play no risk poker, wether that be a $5 mtt or a £100 live game and have the opportunity to win money with no outlay, id be crazy not to.:ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Re: Suggestions Ill give you a good example Red, Im going to be away for the next 3 weekends, 2 PL meets and a wedding and need a fair bit of cash to see me through these days away, so if i can play no risk poker, wether that be a $5 mtt or a £100 live game and have the opportunity to win money with no outlay, id be crazy not to.:ok Playing devils advocate here - would you not be better morl having a seperate poker bankroll that is large enough to support the games you are good enough to play? (so that you dont have to give your equity away to investors) This bankroll should be entirely seperate from money you spend. When your bankroll is larger than what you need to support the level you can play at, then withdraw from it to support other things - that way you get the best of both worlds. If you're good enough to beat a level (you are) then with enough time, you can grind out any bankroll you like from next to nothing. If you cannot afford a poker weekend without decimating your roll, does it not make sense to skip the weekend until your roll can support it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodger Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Re: Suggestions Not a suggestion...Just wanted to put my thoughts down regarding the staking. When I first saw it I thought what a great idea...the possibility of testing yourself at a higher buy-in than you were capable of funding yourself. When I first started playing poker I made a pledge to myself that I would never play with money I could not afford to lose and to date I have very much stuck to that. The way the staking is going there is a lot of ''I'll buy you in for the ABC game if you buy me in for the XYZ game''...so that the more you stake others...the more you are likely to get stakers yourself. But if I am targetting a game of say $100 entry, which I cannot afford, I am expected to have staked others to ''build a reputation'' first...not what I thought the scheme would be about. I imagined it to be the more affluent members staking players to give them a hand up the ladder as it were. The reputation building aspect just seems to be forming a small club of a dozen or so players who are buying each other into games that they really do not need staking for at all! From a purely personal point of view I think I would find it an unpleasant experience to be playing with other people's money. I wouldn't like the added pressures and I strongly suspect my game could suffer as a result. Therefore I will not be seeking staking. ...except in particular circumstances...I won a seat for a $1090 wsop game at ladbrokes back in june (through a freeroll!). Ladbrokes offered no cash out option and so it would have been great to ask for staking on here, having already qualified. Or winning a $2 satellite to a big $200 entry game...then the staking could be sought for that $200 game. I like the idea behind staking...and will stake a few when the opportunity feels right (I was so desperate to get in on Mike's Razz game, but didn't have funds in the required places in time)...however I hope it isn't going to become a closed shop with the same players staking each other all the time, particularly in games where self funding presents no problems at all. Please note this is not intended as a critically negative post...just my own views on how and when I will participate. It's early days yet...but, as it evolves, this could well become a precious part of PL as a whole. :hope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieGaz Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Re: Suggestions Good post dodger and it is nice to hear how you feel! :ok I personally do not think that if I staked someone that I would expect anything in return and would not feel like they had to stake me when required. In fact, I'd feel very uneasy if someone was staking me just because I staked them. I don't think there is the same players staking each other all the time, in fact, since the staking forum started there has been 38 different stakers. I think this forum is also attracting a number of members who would not normally dabble in the poker section of PL and I also think that it will attract newer members also. I, personally am really enjoying this forum so far and it is great to see when it comes off and players and stakers alike are winning. :dude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Re: Suggestions I can see where you're coming from and can agree with a lot of what you say, but..... The way the staking is going there is a lot of ''I'll buy you in for the ABC game if you buy me in for the XYZ game''...so that the more you stake others...the more you are likely to get stakers yourself. From my perspective, I dont see it that way at all. Going forward, I see myself offering more stakes than requesting (because I'm generally happy to stake myself - where I do play for others, it wont be for the money, but more for the vanity of the leaderboard place :$) When I think of where to stake and where not to stake, I have one criteria - "do I believe it is positive ev?". Whether someone has staked me or not before will not affect the ev of the proposition, and generally my decision (Only GeordieGaz has staked me so far, and I havent staked him, yet - so everyone I've staked is not a reciprical arrangement - I'm not expecting or looking for a staking back) What factors am I considering? Off the top of my head: Someones history - how they have performed when staked before. Do I think they rise to the challenge, or buckle under the pressure? My perception of someones game and ability through my experiences of them when I've played them, or the impression I get of their "depth of thinking" about the game from their posts. The value added expectation for the game (overlay) I also need to trust someone to hand my money over - and that is mainly formed through the amount of time they've been on PL and the contribution they've made over time. Someone who's been on the forum a month will find it far harder to get staking from me than someone who's been around 3 years (nothing against them, simply a case if I'm unsure/dont know, then I'll probably hold back..... My own view (and I've discussed this over PM with some, so know there's other views out there) is that it's tough to be confident of positive ev as an investor in non value added games - by the time you take out the players cut, they need a significant edge for you to break even (over time) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGremlin Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Re: Suggestions The reputation building aspect just seems to be forming a small club of a dozen or so players who are buying each other into games that they really do not need staking for at all! (Almost) all staking request have found enough people willing to stake them. I think it's more that a few players are more active on the staking activities so it seems like a small club. For me I have accepted a lot of staking that I could afford myself easily. I just like the idea a lot and really didn't like being in the red numbers for a while on the leaderboard. And people still don't know me that well so I kinda feel like I still need to prove my worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodger Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Re: Suggestions Reading my own post again it is far more negative and ''we're all doomed'' than I intended it to be. In effect I have over-stated the current situation by some margin. :\ Having said that...I did realise it was a bit OTT...but changing it to be ''PC'' would probably have lost the gist (?) of the post so I left it as first written. :eyes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGremlin Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Re: Suggestions It was perfectly fine as you wrote it. It had an impact. I think I'll fund the 32Red BTB myself in the future :unsure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Re: Suggestions Reading my own post again it is far more negative and ''we're all doomed'' than I intended it to be. In effect I have over-stated the current situation by some margin. :\ Having said that...I did realise it was a bit OTT...but changing it to be ''PC'' would probably have lost the gist (?) of the post so I left it as first written. :eyes I'd be shocked if anyone had an issue with your post :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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