BAM Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 After the recent ramblings of a few retards in this section I have become convinced what another member tried to tell me a few months ago 'poker strategy on PL is futile' I and a few others have tried but it seems that some people cannot grasp the strategy concept and they use it as a vehicle for their own head trip. Maybe it's the generation gap I'm not sure but one of these retards even suggested recently that I should get my kids castrated :eyes I'm not sure if the problem lies with the moderators but it is always nice to blame them :tongue2 I hope it gets better soon but for me it is dead there are so many better places on the net to discuss strategy and of course there is always the old way of meeting and talking to fellow players which I prefer and will continue to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samba_SamPa Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 Re: Futile? I feel that my poker has improved since joining PL, and my account balance would back that up, and I can safely say that that is in part to reading strategy discussions in here, together with playing against you guys. I guess it's down to what people want out of the section. When I have posted HHs it is because I genuinely want feedback - what different people would have done in the situation, why they would have done it, etc - and I take it all on board. That is what it should be about imo. I haven't played live yet, I don't have many friends who play poker, so this is the nearest I get to discussing strategic points with other players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Quiet Man Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 Re: Futile? Now you see why I'm reluctant to get involved with posting on the 'stategy' threads!:lol:lol What works for one person may be the complete opposite to what works for another! If we all played the same way, then no-one would win!:ok Have a nice day folks!:beer TQM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nade Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 Re: Futile? Total non-subject IMO. A couple of dodgy ending posts doesn't make the place dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 Re: Futile? After the recent ramblings of a few retards in this section I have become convinced what another member tried to tell me a few months ago 'poker strategy on PL is futile' I and a few others have tried but it seems that some people cannot grasp the strategy concept and they use it as a vehicle for their own head trip. Maybe it's the generation gap I'm not sure but one of these retards even suggested recently that I should get my kids castrated :eyes I'm not sure if the problem lies with the moderators but it is always nice to blame them :tongue2 I hope it gets better soon but for me it is dead there are so many better places on the net to discuss strategy and of course there is always the old way of meeting and talking to fellow players which I prefer and will continue to do. Please illustrate with examples :ok suggestions for improvement are always welcome of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glceud Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 Re: Futile? A lot of it is the age or experience gap. Younger players seem convinced there is a right and a wrong way to play poker. If there was we could all get the computer program on ebay and go down the pub. But the poker strategy here will point complete novices in the right direction and give the rest of us occasional food for thought. Billy the Punters thread made one massive point for me, and that was that he was not asking for advice he just wanted to know what others would do. He knew what the right play for him was even if it was not the same for everyone. In a way it sums up the futility of the strategy section but I think it proves more that all we really do is scratch the surface. Any way keep it going, I just post in here to piss some one off other than the wife and kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowRow87 Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 Re: Futile? After the recent ramblings of a few retards in this section I have become convinced what another member tried to tell me a few months ago 'poker strategy on PL is futile' I and a few others have tried but it seems that some people cannot grasp the strategy concept and they use it as a vehicle for their own head trip. Maybe it's the generation gap I'm not sure but one of these retards even suggested recently that I should get my kids castrated :eyes I'm not sure if the problem lies with the moderators but it is always nice to blame them :tongue2 I hope it gets better soon but for me it is dead there are so many better places on the net to discuss strategy and of course there is always the old way of meeting and talking to fellow players which I prefer and will continue to do. you really are starting to get on my nerves!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 Re: Futile? I'm not sure if the problem lies with the moderators but it is always nice to blame them :tongue2 OK, Nazi Mod responding (though I like to think I'm the soft, cuddly brand of Nazi Mod :D): People do seem to have been getting bad-tempered around here recently (personally, I blame it on the hot weather). I agree with WASP in a way. We have a fair few very good players here, but there are places on the net that we can't compete with for depth of strategy discussion ... if you're thick-skinned enough to put up with the constant sneering and put-downs. I'd like to think that one of our strengths has been that people can post their questions/thoughts here with relatively little fear of being belittled and mocked. So could I make a personal plea that we try to keep it that way? We have members with a wide range of ability/experience. If a less able/experienced member posts an opinion that you think is simply wrong-headed, then by all means explain why you think they're wrong, but there's no need for personal insults. And if you think somebody else is being arrogant or rude or whatever, then chances are that other people think so too. There's no need to divert the discussion into a slanging match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Re: Futile? A lot of it is the age or experience gap. Younger players seem convinced there is a right and a wrong way to play poker. If there was we could all get the computer program on ebay and go down the pub. Agree 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whycantistayawayfromdogs Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Re: Futile? A lot of it is the age or experience gap. Younger players seem convinced there is a right and a wrong way to play poker. If there was we could all get the computer program on ebay and go down the pub. Imo this is absurd. This is like saying that 'the young guys on the TV box think there is a way of predicting the weather on a computer, pah if there was we could get a program off ebay to do it'. The program helps you make decisions (a la weather forecasts [discount 5 days]), generally unless you are a complete genius or a meticulous note taker you are going to find it tricky to keep track of players tendencies (these are all of the variables that help you to make a decision) on over 2+ tables (let alone 6-infinity). There may not be right and wrong ways of playing a hand, but there are certainly good and bad ways of playing most hands... Ultimately if you cant play a hand 'wrongly' then what would be the point of a strategy forum (every strategy you can opt for is right, yey:nana:nana)?? A lot of the time this forum is like trying to explain to my granny why she needs a digital radio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wurzel133 Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Re: Futile? A lot of it is the age or experience gap. Younger players seem convinced there is a right and a wrong way to play poker. If there was we could all get the computer program on ebay and go down the pub. this is not just a poker point its a life point as my grandad used to say you think you know it all but you actually know nothing . i dont mean that literaly but as you get older you become more open to other ideas and there is the possability that you might actually be wrong but i do know that alot of people on here young and old are starting to take there selves a little to seiously back to the point i hope the wasp is wrong and there is a place for strategy i just wish that people would accept its not black and white there are shades of grey aswell thats my rambling over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whycantistayawayfromdogs Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Re: Futile? lol are you seriously saying the older you get the more open-minded you become? The strategy forum has picked up a bit so could a mod please close this [pointless] thread and banish it to the PL basement or something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted August 8, 2008 Author Share Posted August 8, 2008 Re: Futile? you really are starting to get on my nerves!!! and why might that be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glceud Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Re: Futile? Imo this is absurd. This is like saying that 'the young guys on the TV box think there is a way of predicting the weather on a computer, pah if there was we could get a program off ebay to do it'. The program helps you make decisions (a la weather forecasts [discount 5 days]), generally unless you are a complete genius or a meticulous note taker you are going to find it tricky to keep track of players tendencies (these are all of the variables that help you to make a decision) on over 2+ tables (let alone 6-infinity). There may not be right and wrong ways of playing a hand, but there are certainly good and bad ways of playing most hands... Ultimately if you cant play a hand 'wrongly' then what would be the point of a strategy forum (every strategy you can opt for is right, yey:nana:nana)?? A lot of the time this forum is like trying to explain to my granny why she needs a digital radio. Well I can honestly say that you have gone completely over my head there. Or perhaps I went over yours. As Wurzel says poker is no were near black and white. You are nearly right about one thing "every strategy you can opt for is right" well apart from the blatently obvious bad strategy that is. There is a right and a wrong time to adopt any type of play and as BTP said there is also a right and a wrong type of play for an any specific individual. Go check poker tracker and find me an Icon that is much above any other in the profit making department. Exclude the fish and there are players making profits with all styles of play. Oh and find me a computer that can get the weather forecast right in the Hebrides and I'll find you a golden goose:eek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whycantistayawayfromdogs Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Re: Futile? crossed wires...my point is that there is no computer program that can currently play NLHE FOR you, that isnt the point of tracking software. The poker tracker reference is completely wrong, i think theres a thread (not sure the name) on the strategy forum of optimum VPIP and PFR figures at 6-max NLHE, the boundarys are fine and for example generally people playing a loose passive 30/5 game are easily exploited. Bet sizing is the main thing that can be right/wrong, thin value betting, 2/3 barrelling, controllin pot etc are all parts of the game that can be right/wrong and can be easily improved by using tracking software IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whycantistayawayfromdogs Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Re: Futile? oh and the weather, my point is that the weather can be loosely predicted by a computer, but is hardly ever 'exactly right'. In the same sense a piece of software cant play the game for you because there are so many unknown variables, but it can give you an indication of what you shouyld be doing against a certain opponant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whycantistayawayfromdogs Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Re: Futile? Oh and yeh there are people playing profitable games of all styles but each game will have an optimum style of play depending on the rest of the players at the table. Back to my point that i could play a profitable game whilst folding AA preflop, but i would be more profitable if i played it. Lots of styles of play are +EV but some are more +EV than others... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Re: Futile? Playing any form of poker with a scientific mentality will always result in you compromising profits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiant23 Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Re: Futile? While I agree with you Billy, we both know there are a huge amount of good (mostly young) players who do make a decent profit from playing poker purely from a mathematical perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Re: Futile? Isn't maths a science:unsure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Re: Futile? While I agree with you Billy' date=' we both know there are a huge amount of good (mostly young) players who do make a decent profit from playing poker purely from a mathematical perspective.[/quote'] Absolutely, although I do believe they will never fulfill potential playing this way. Also - it's less fun. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubermonkey1 Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Re: Futile? Absolutely, although I do believe they will never fulfill potential playing this way. Also - it's less fun. ;) also ,surely by playing purely the maths way you become easier to read and counteract:unsure dont get me wrong, the more you understand on the maths front the better but playing like this consistently can get you into trouble vs a good observant opponent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsterling Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Re: Futile? I never understand why there is this conflict between "maths" and "reads" or "feel" as if the two are mutually exclusive. In fact they compliment eachother and one is not as effective without the other. In a given hand, you need the ability to hand read to put a player on a range of hands given their actions, betsizing, timing, history etc. Then you must work out your equity against this range by using maths estimations. If you are ahead of his range you work out how to best extract value from it, if you are behind you need to decide whether your line is strong enough and whether you have fold equity to take them off their hand, or if you have enough equity to make a call. A very crude description, but still use of "maths" and "reads". I constantly get the feeling here that the "old guard", if you will, think the younger players can only do maths and use software. Not sure why this is, but personally I think I am a good hand reader and am successful at heads up cash/sngs, 6 max cash in omaha and hold 'em and I make the use of both "maths" and "feel". I just don't segregate them from eachother like a lot of players seem to, I use every edge and skill available to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Re: Futile? I never understand why there is this conflict between "maths" and "reads" or "feel" as if the two are mutually exclusive. In fact they compliment eachother and one is not as effective without the other. In a given hand, you need the ability to hand read to put a player on a range of hands given their actions, betsizing, timing, history etc. Then you must work out your equity against this range by using maths estimations. If you are ahead of his range you work out how to best extract value from it, if you are behind you need to decide whether your line is strong enough and whether you have fold equity to take them off their hand, or if you have enough equity to make a call. A very crude description, but still use of "maths" and "reads". I constantly get the feeling here that the "old guard", if you will, think the younger players can only do maths and use software. Not sure why this is, but personally I think I am a good hand reader and am successful at heads up cash/sngs, 6 max cash in omaha and hold 'em and I make the use of both "maths" and "feel". I just don't segregate them from eachother like a lot of players seem to, I use every edge and skill available to me. Of course, every player must use both, if they can of course. We're talking about players who solely take the mathmatical approach, or do so the majority of the time anyway. It's not always down to age, but it's more common as most younger players have been born into the game due to online poker - where feels and reads are less important. Just the nature of the game these days. I'm actually not that old by the way!:lol Although I'm primarily a live player and got my experience that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whycantistayawayfromdogs Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Re: Futile? it is a live vs online issue really, lots of live players get crushed online and vice versa... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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